DAIWA GONE MAD

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This topic contains 82 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Woody 4 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #53812

    TF_GLEBE1
    Member

    If you can afford it and want one enough to buy good for you!
    If you can’t, well its tough tits, look for something cheaper like a second hand hardly used Z12 they go for around £1500 lol!!

  • #163713

    TF_badger
    Participant

    @glebe1 wrote:

    If you can afford it and want one enough to buy good for you!
    If you can’t, well its tough tits, look for something cheaper like a second hand hardly used Z12 they go for around £1500 lol!!

    And you need to buy a new van to carry one in ! 😉

  • #163714

    @badger wrote:

    @glebe1 wrote:

    If you can afford it and want one enough to buy good for you!
    If you can’t, well its tough tits, look for something cheaper like a second hand hardly used Z12 they go for around £1500 lol!!

    And you need to buy a new van to carry one in ! 😉

    I got the Z 12 and strange as it sounds you can take the pole apart so you dont have to transport it at full length… 😉

    really dont have any problem with the extra length of the sections. I drive a Skoda Fabia combi and got plenty of room left in the car. brillient pole by the way!

  • #163717

    TF_Lee Wood
    Member

    You don’t remember the Tournament 710 then? (At least I think it was called that, can’t remember now, its been so long) Sold back in the early 00’s

    RRP £7500…

    It was mainly sold to tackle shop owners or employees at a favorable discount if it was for their own use and only for their own use!..

    Purely a marketing thing really…

    They had 3 Tournament poles back then,
    the 710, 410 and the 210…

    The 710 and 410 felt very similar from what I remember.

  • #163719

    the tournament 710 was not just for marketing , it was the best pole by an absolute mile when it was released – and i saw a few in use , including mine 😉 I had a very well paid job at the time 😉

    it was stiff light and strong , and it had short sections .

  • #163720

    TF_bagging machine
    Participant

    it was stiff light and strong , and it had short sections .

    I remember seeing one at hayfield it had wraps on most sections so although it might be light and stiff i would question its strength probably better suited to bloodworm fishing on canals rather than commercials.

  • #163721

    I personally do not think the cost is,or was the main issue when Daiwa designed and then released the Air pole.or for many other manufacturers over the years.
    they strive to produce the best products that technology allows them to do as it advances both in design and materials available.
    the working man could not afford £300-400 for carbotech and normark rods,but a few had them and still do.
    or paying upwards of £100-150+ on a single reels,but many own 2-3 or even more of them.
    £1000 was and still is a lot of money for any angler to pay out on a pole,but we see many £2000 poles owned by anglers at club level.they say if you want something bad enough you will save for it.
    only you can decide wether it is worth,or practical to save for it.

    just my personal opinion of course. 🙂

  • #163723

    @bagging machine wrote:

    it was stiff light and strong , and it had short sections .

    I remember seeing one at hayfield it had wraps on most sections so although it might be light and stiff i would question its strength probably better suited to bloodworm fishing on canals rather than commercials.

    I actually owned one and used it on commercials , i used to fish Heyford a lot in its hey day and that meant some decent carp , i had them to well over double figures with no problem

  • #163729

    TF_badger
    Participant

    @fred van den feeder wrote:

    @badger wrote:

    @glebe1 wrote:

    If you can afford it and want one enough to buy good for you!
    If you can’t, well its tough tits, look for something cheaper like a second hand hardly used Z12 they go for around £1500 lol!!

    And you need to buy a new van to carry one in ! 😉

    I got the Z 12 and strange as it sounds you can take the pole apart so you dont have to transport it at full length… 😉

    really dont have any problem with the extra length of the sections. I drive a Skoda Fabia combi and got plenty of room left in the car. brillient pole by the way!

    Fred a Skoda, did you get it free with your pole ? 😉

  • #163732

    TF_Lee Wood
    Member

    @shallowman wrote:

    the tournament 710 was not just for marketing , it was the best pole by an absolute mile when it was released – and i saw a few in use , including mine 😉 I had a very well paid job at the time 😉

    it was stiff light and strong , and it had short sections .

    Its a marketing ploy in the fact that it gets them the status of having the most expensive pole on the planet… And this is and will be the same…

    People will buy them, albeit a very select few… No doubt about it, and I am sure for the moment they are the absolute best pole on the market… But its still an marketing, an status if you will IMO…
    They will probably sell for around 30-40% less than the RRP as retailers fight over the 10 customers (Recession time and all that) a year that will buy one of them… If things haven’t changed since I was in the trade, then margins will be down to £25-50 per pole, hardly worth the phone call to order one…


    I also have to say that I agree with Tidelwave, in that its Daiwa pushing the limits of the technology available to them today, something they have pretty much always done…

    This also I imagine is a way of bringing down the cost of the carbon cloth/technology needed, I assume that the mandrel is the same as all their other poles?
    They probably already have plans for the range of poles that will be using the same technology (and the improvements that will come) for the next decade.

  • #163733

    Fred a Skoda, did you get it free with your pole ? ;)[/quote]

    Hahaha yep and becouse they know i got a Rive box i got a trailer with the car…

  • #163737

    TF_Sluicer
    Member

    I know someone who is still using a 710 – and is probably using it right now on the canal in a Winter League. It certainly looked in immaculate condition the last time I saw it on the bank.

  • #163740

    All the manufacturers have had a go at producing these imaginery poles. The 710 price tag dropped due to numbers sold, people buy them, I had been made redundant and toyed with buying one £5500 was the asking price at the time (early 80’s). Fantstic piece of kit.

    Mavers brought out a pole that was more expensive I believe but which I think failed to sell. Many others have produced £3000 – £4000 poles since.

    Earlier than that Silstar brought out the diaflex – I think this was £2000 when most top end ploes were about £900 – £1000 and these had virually no spares compared to tody’s poles.
    I bought the waggler rods each a months wages at the time and still using them today. Still fantastic pieces of kit.

    Preston brought out the RS100 another pricey piece of kit, the nearest I’ve seen to the 710 to press.

    If anglers didn’t buy these items either to give them an edge or just being a tart the companies would not produce them, developement and material costs would put them out of business quite quickly.

    Another good example; look at clothing HH has made a significant improvement to angling, anglers look a lot more acceptable in co-ordinated waterproofs than old jeans, wellies and waxed jackets (the beer can in pocket look).

    Who would have thought the Rive boxes would sell at £800 “it’s just a seat” so were the shakespeare and Diawa boxes but you do not see many of them on the bank now, like mine probably used to keep mice out of groundbait.

    Have daiwa gone mad? NO they are providing for a demand, just like any other manufacturer. Look at anything to do with angling or the leasure industry in general as long as people pay the price and profit is made the manufacturers will produce.

  • #163743

    Maver super lithium 801,and 601 poles.
    Future Eternity.
    Daiwa 710.
    all are poles that had a £5000-60000+ selling price tag.
    how many were sold is anyones guess.
    although i did see a couple of 710’s on the bank many years ago.
    before the daiwa air came out,there were still poles with a £3000+ selling price tag.
    but we still all like to look at and waggle them where possible.just to satisfy our curiousity at what you get for that sort of money.

  • #163744

    My Z12 fits nicely in my Mondeo Estate as well so you don’t need to buy a Skoda.

  • #163747

    TF_JohnH
    Member

    No I dont think they have gone mad. Clearly its a pole targeted at the top end of the market but I expect to see a few on the bank next year at places like White acres. Along with £1000 rive boxes and multiple £200 rods set up with £200 reels!
    This is what top end anglers aspire to and they are not necessaritly wealthy.
    The number of anglers in our club who moan about money but routinely go to the pub every night and get through 20 fags (or more) a day never ceases to amaze me.
    I recon on average £100 a week goes up in smoke or down the bog, Those who aspire, buy top gear instead and leave the rest to think they must have won the lottery, if only they could add up!! So you pays your money and makes your choice.
    Good gear has never been so cheap, good advice is all around in mags or on the net.

    I too recall the Daiwa 710 and also other manufacturers having 8k poles on the market 15 years ago some bought them then!!.
    Daiwa know exactly what they are doing and the Air will sell. Has anyone else noticed the number of second hand Airities about?

  • #163748

    TF_Gavin
    Member

    I’m sure the Future Eternity (about ’97 from my memory) had a full RRP of £10k! I think the Air probably just comes in at the VERY top end of what people may pay for a flagship without it being a silly “show pole” price like the old 710 and the Maver 801 and that Future pole. A pole only package to existing Daiwa owners, who many will sell the older pole will make the actual outlay not all that far from a “normal” flagship price.

    Lets face it, I bet nearly everyone who can’t afford / justify buying one of those real niche top-end jobbies would buy one (whatever their favoured brand / manufacturer) if they came in to serious cash! I know I would 😀

  • #163752

    according to F/Blues, the first ‘air’ production run is limited to 100 poles and i’ve seen about 10 tackle shops offering them for sale on the internet.
    Given amount of angler interest- can;t see that 100 lasting till Nov. 2013.

    They’ve also launched a £1000 spinning reel for presumably their S/E asian and US market.

  • #163772

    TF_slippery
    Member

    @chrismoorhead wrote:

    i have just had my hands on this pole
    very interesting indeed the walls are very thin on the butt sections to reduce weight
    very very stiff BUT it will snap you will not be able to give the pole any heave ho
    a good canal pole then yes carp pole NEVER !! diawa are not known for swapping things so easily i would be very weary about what i did with it
    if the wind is above 2mp the pole would be going back in the holdall trust me

    Interesting as a few days ago i read that Will Raison put his elbow through one of the butt sections on his air. 😮

  • #163776

    TF_robbiesch
    Member

    If i were to spend 4k on a pole it would definatley be a daiwa pole. i spent 3k on my current daiwa pole (an average angler)

    whilst browning poles and rods have always been excellent and they are getting better their service certainly isn’t getting better – for its getting worse. If a section of my pole/rod/equipment broke daiwa can get me that section within 48hrs to my house…many many times i have anglers with browning poles wait months for replacement sections.

  • #163792

    i think its hard to say they wont sell i had the 1st tournament and thought thats it ill never spend moree than that on a pole 2100 being the price then .since ive had 2 black airitys and now am on the silver one and that 600 quid ontop of the 2100. the thing is if you do have the cash and can afford to own 1 good luck and well done i no that in 16 month time ill have an air not just through being a tackle tart but enjoying spending on something that i love to do week in week out!and i no for a fact that ill still get around the 2 grand mark for my airity daiwa poles hold there price and sell better than most other poles out there and thats a fact of life haha? my mate has just sold a brandnew z12 used once cos he preferd daiwa he has had nearly every flagship pole on the market and said the airity was the best pole he has owned >to cut a long story short thoe i do think they will sell and there will be more on the bank than everybody thinks due to the fact daiwa make the best poles and rods

  • #163796

    TF_carpmagic
    Participant

    Chrismoorhead, what a ridiculous statement. Ive had my Air for nearly 3 months now and have used it in some of the worst conditions imaginable with no problems. Ive had carp to mid doubles on red hydro too, again with no problems. Out of interest how long did you fish with the pole for? As surely you need to fish with it to give an opinion?
    By the way i’m not having a go here, i’m just interested in how long Chris has fished with the pole for to give such a comprehensive opinion!

  • #163797

    Steve,do you now use the AIR for everything or still use the Airity sometimes as well.

  • #163798

    TF_craigm
    Member

    Can I just ask – does it come apart at the 6/7 joint like both my Airity’s did or have they solved that ??? This isn’t me having a dig, I just wondered as that has been a problem with Daiwa poles for years and I think it should have been resolved on a pole costing so much.

  • #163799

    TF_carpmagic
    Participant

    Craig, i havent had a problem with my Air coming apart, then again i didnt with my Airity either. I do put the joints together and twist them though same as i did with my shimano poles.

  • #163800

    TF_baitchef
    Participant

    One day, Daiwa will make a better pole than the air, but i would imagine they have probably gone just about as far as they can with this mandrel and the current carbon technology.
    Lets not forget that basically what you get with any pole is some carbon shaped around some metal, so eventually your going to reach its limits. Its just a case of timing.
    I applaud Daiwa, they know exactly what they are doing by releasing the poles when they do. Not many companies have the bottle to do what they have done with this mandrel during this climate when the commercial bubble is at saturation point.
    We have heard it said that it is only marginally better than the airity, that’s fair enough, but lets not forget, that often the difference between winning and losing is also often marginal.
    There will be a huge demand for this pole, its an incredibly desirable object for a number of reasons, and by only making a run of 100 or whatever it is they will ensure demand is greater than supply, hence the price tag.
    The design and build of these mandrels is incredibly expensive, get it wrong and you have a problem, hence all the r&d that goes into it.
    Just take a step back and think about how many poles daiwa have sold off this mandrel, thousands, and why? Because they understand the marketplace and they build poles that can handle pretty much all situations. That is why we have confidence in them.

    At least they do not bring out a suppoosedly new pole every year (cough cough). Or re badge and re market poles built for foreign competition that is completely different to the uk.

    Baked up with excellent customer service, spares and a brand that importantly holds its value.

    Also if its true that Will Raison put his arm through a but section, then its hardly surprising. He’s Not particularly know for going easy on tackle and if you watch him, he pushes it too its limits, A because he can, and B because that’s what he is paid for.

  • #163802

    very good point summation and post baitchef

  • #163803

    TF_sillysod
    Member

    Why does it always turn into a slagging match between brands,personally most of my gear is diawa but I use a z9,this was my choice, I was saving for an airity at the time.
    Air,z12 and z9 are all probably excellent poles and its personal choice what the angler prefers and eventually buys.
    So if diawa can sell them good look to them

  • #163804

    Anonymous

    Think you will find that the technology is out there to make massive steps in pole design. The big problem for the tackle industry is the cost to bring much of that technology in to making these poles for angling. Companies like Diawa are always playing with new technology so they are ahead of the game but also in attempts to make the technology cost effective to produce for the mass angling market.

    The cost of a new pole for any angler should be down to being able to justify it by that angler. Plenty of people out there earning well above average wages and have lots of disposable income or cash in the bank doing nothing. Plenty of anglers with hundreds of thousands of pounds locked up in there homes or business that could be used to cover the cost of the very best that money can offer. You cannot take it with you once your gone! Plenty of anglers with enough money to justify the pleasure of using the best that is available if thats what floats your boat. I,ve never been able to justify £20,000+ on a car when i only want to get from A-B but plenty of people dont think twice about the cost of your new car based on what i see on the roads. Many of those drivers can justify that cost of those cars in there own minds. So, why not justify a £4,000 pole?

    Quite a few match anglers who win enough matches to justify the cost of a £4,000 pole over a few seasons for the edge that it potentially gives them and added winnings. Quite a few tackle tarts out there who change there pole almost as often as they win a match. I see plenty of match anglers with £7,000+ worth of tackle on the bank who never win a penny. So, there are plenty of anglers who could justify the cost of this new pole if they wanted. Good luck to them if thats what they want.

  • #163805

    TF_Tim_D
    Member

    I know some people that have spent over £1000 on a rive seat box so spending £4000 on a pole wont batter an eye lid on several people, personally i’d rather spend £4k on a pole than £1k on a seat box. I see one website is selling the air for £3750.

  • #163807

    TF_JohnH
    Member

    TB is quite correct technology is out there but it is very expensive. I work in aerospace and carbon fibre is rapidly replacing aluminium in aero structures, wings especially.
    Aircraft like the A380, Boeing 787 and the new Airbus A350 use the technology extensively.
    Development costs are huge and programmes often fall well behind plan due to technical problems, no fishing tackle company however large can carry that cost.
    They will however leverage on developments as they become standard practice so many improvements to come I think over time.
    I still have some old fibre glass rods at home and when I put them alongside some of my new rods I wonder how the newer rods dont break every time I use them!!
    In 40 odd years of angling gear has moved on leaps and bounds, it will continue to do so at an ever increasing pace, no question about it. The Air is just one more step along that never ending road.

  • #163808

    TF_bagging machine
    Participant

    Quite a few match anglers who win enough matches to justify the cost of a £4,000 pole over a few seasons for the edge that it potentially gives them and added winnings.

    Steve, I noticed Phil still uses the old Tournament Pro yet he obviously fits into the above category. Why has he not felt the need to upgrade to either of the Airitys or is he saving himself for the Air? and he is one of many many anglers who are at the top of their game still using the trusted Pro.

  • #163809

    even though i could never afford one myself,i would still love to have a go with one.i have had a fish with someone else’s Airity last year,and that was superb at all lengths.if the Air is even a fraction better,it will be something very special.

  • #163811

    TF_carpmagic
    Participant

    Bagging machine if truth be known phil doesnt do a lot of pole fishing, preferring to sit it out on the feeder most of the time. His pro is therefore in great nick and for what little pole fishing he does hes more than happy with it! He actually said the other day the only time he really uses his pro is at whiteacres!

  • #163812

    TF_bagging machine
    Participant

    Yes i was in his section on the Maver when he won it from peg 29 on pollawyn, he gave us all a masterclass in pole fishing that day. Had some great laughs with him that week. Bet he didn’t tell you he should have gone swimming naked that day?

  • #163815

    TF_Glover
    Member

    Hello everyone.

    This is my first post, I’ve been lurking on the site for ages but this is a subject I’m very interested in as a Daiwa fan.

    Good luck to anyone who can afford to upgrade to the Air but a point I would raise is about the actual cost of ownership rather than just the initial purchase price i.e. factoring in the cost of spares.

    As Daiwa introduce new models they seem to ramp up the price of spares. for example the price of a replacement number 2 for the Tournament Pro x (2010/11 model) was £20; for the latest version of the Pro X (2012 model) it’s £40. The other sections are more expensive as well. Daiwa have also taken a similar approach to version iterations of Airity. Check out fishingspares.co.uk and similar sites to see how this has evolved over quite a short time.

    cost of materials has undoubtedly increased over time but is it just a case of Daiwa realising that their prices were originally quite reasonable and that there is scope to increase them?

    In any event I would check out the price of spares for the Air with your dealer before taking the plunge. this issue is making me question sticking with Daiwa for my next pole.

  • #163818

    I laugh at a mere £4000 for a top end pole. If your into your shooting a top end side by side shot gun can cost around £70,0000 😮 The sad thing is a pole,expensive or cheap is just a collection of mass produced tube’s and a quick spray job at least you see where your money goes on expensive cars, pushbikes or watches. etc
    If one major manufacturing company in any market produces an insanely high priced product then the other big players have do the same because their product’s psychologically become inferior to the buying public if they don’t. It’s called premier marketing and we all fall for it to a degree. I spent money on a mid priced pole that can just about do 16mts when i rarely go above 12mtrs and probably overspent by £300. If i’m honest i couldn’t really feel any difference between the one below mine that’s when the selling psychology came into play…hook, line and sinker !

  • #163826

    If I had £4k to spend on a pole the only company I would trust to provide it are Daiwa, they don’t change models every year like Maver, Prestons Garbolino et al. and there spares service is 2nd to non….

    Goodness knows how long it is since the Spectron pole came out but it still is considered to be a top pole by many who continue to use them, Daiwa understand that so prior to retiring the mandrel they manufactured generic 5’s 6’s and 7’s that can be used on the Speccie, Exceler and Whisker models…

    Can any other Manufacturer compete with that level of service?

  • #163827

    TF_Amer
    Participant

    It’s always good to read others opinions on poles, its also good to keep a balanced view. Lets take out the price issue for the moment and look at what you actually get when you buy a pole…

    Only so much a pole manufacturer can do when they wrap the carbon cloth round the mandrel and bake. What I mean is look at what certain pole manufacturers have done to try and make poles lighter, stiffer, stronger? Make the sections longer, make the joints shorter. But making a section longer may make the pole stiffer but has it made it stronger? In my years of fishing I have owned every Daiwa pole since the Harrier Tournament, in that time the emergence of commercial fisheries has meant what we need is a pole that can act as an all round tool for the job, unless you buy a pole and then buy another so called power pole which then brings the so called better priced pole up to the price of an Air! In my experience of owning Daiwa poles, one pole has always done the job so no need to buy a second pole plus spares etc. but is this the case for the other above mentioned poles? Browning are bringing out a power version of the Z12 that fits onto the pole, I know from experience the same for Garbolino poles, and this makes a so called cheaper pole more expensive as if you venture out and fish commercial fisheries then you may have to shell out on two poles instead of one that will do the job. Oh and the one pole that will do the job is fishable at 16+ metres!

    As the saying goes…”you get what you pay for'”

    Just my opinion and agree many good poles on the market, but for me only one company has set the standard when it comes to poles.

    Ps. I do have an Airity and yes it does the job on any venue I fish with the correct top kits used.

  • #163828

    TF_baitchef
    Participant

    I think another important point to consider is that we are fishing longer distances often to snags or islands.

    A few years ago adding an extension to a standard 16m to take it to 17.5m was considered extreme. Now its just the norm and often the top anglers are adding 2 or even 3 extra extensions, in order to get those extra few match winning fish that make the difference.
    I know the Pro x is popular for this type of pole fishing because it can handle the forces that are being exerted whilst still remaining fishable.

    Even on natural venues it must be nice to be able to fish very long to that bramble bush on the far side of a canal and have a realistic chance of bagging a match winning bonus.

    Where as other continental poles will just not be up to it.

    Daiwa have realised this and so made some tweaks to to the air to enable you to fish longer distances more comfortably whilst not having to worry if your pole is going to explode.

  • #163829

    TF_bbbackshot
    Participant

    Limit everone to 13mts, then all can afford to compete, plus thats as far as i can see lol 🙂

  • #163834

    Whilst this undoubtedly a great pole – yet some of the recent gush that is now been written with perspective long abandoned- seems to have forgotten its just a pole – and there are equally good new poles by other manufacturers,
    As for the comments about the ‘air’ making margin poles redundant – or capable of being fished at 19m or 21 m – yes – i’m sure.
    Many other anglers regularly do this notably not using a Diawa pole.

    At the end of the day it’s just a pole -not the equivalent of the ‘second coming’ for christ’s sake! lol

  • #163838

    TF_redarmy
    Member

    the company at the forefront of carbon technology in the uk is tricast,there main business is f1 and aerospace.i bought one of the first availible trilogy pro2 yesterday and if the air is worth 2k more it must tackle up feed and catch your fish for you. :p :p :p

  • #163850

    TF_geepster
    Member

    I’ve not had a chance to pick one up yet – but Will gives some of his views in a vid in this month’s Coarse & Match Fishing….
    http://www.total-fishing.com/videos/coarse-and-match-fishing-monthly

    His Shelf Life videos are also well worth watching.

  • #163871

    think main factor for use of exts. past 16m – according to the AT Mark Sawyer review – (the air is designed with this growing trend in mind) is fishing features 19-22m away on a lot of commie lakes – rather than just the 16m width of ‘snakes’ and commie ‘Kanals’.
    Because of this fact – a 13m limit as per FIPS would never become a reality since such would effectively financially ruin both fisheries and impact on manufacturers and uk market negatively.

  • #163893

    I have not been on the site for a while, so this is just my opinion.
    £4000 for a top of the range pole is about the price you could expect to pay in today’s climate. In 1999 Daiwa released the tournament X & the rrp of that pole was £3650 and that was at 14.5 mtrs(still got my receipt) If you wanted the 16 mtr extension it was £600.
    The 710 had a rrp of £7500 but you could buy one for £5200 and i saw plenty of these on the commercials i fished and I have witnessed shallowman fishing at heyford ,hooking many a big carp on his 710 and the only reason he sold it because the pole was TOO stiff and he feared it would go bang when a 10 lb Carp was doing 30 knots down the far bank.
    I have not seen Daiwa’s new pole , but it will no doubt be good if not much better than there previous top of the range poles . Whether it is worth the price tag depends on your own consiounce & finances.

  • #161805

    TF_geepster
    Member

    Here’s my opinion not about the pole but about the whole business.
    Making poles to allow you to fish at 18m, 20m, 22m is good for the manufacturers, for the sponsored anglers and for the anglers with money. It is not good for match fishing.
    Why are fisheries so reluctant to impose a pole length limit, Surely that would be good for their revenues by creating a leveller playing field?

  • #163849

    Geeps,i agree that pole limits are all very good in theory.and the better feeding anglers would still win off the right pegs.but too many commercial fisheries,some with snakelakes etc, have already made pole limits impractical,due to their intial construction.if they are 16-18mts wide to the far bank for example,and there is a 13mt limit.during certain times the fish would be uncatchable if they moved into far bank areas.
    also many anglers would moan about using restricted lengths of pole.especially if they have just paid out megabucks for 16mts or more.
    manufacturers pride themselves on creating the ultimate fishing tools,if there were nationwide length restrictions even only on commercials,they would not be happy if sales of 16mt poles started to drop.
    just my thoughts.

  • #163896

    TF_geepster
    Member

    Yeah but match fishing is struggling like hell.
    Does it really matter if the ledge is at 18m and you can only fish at 14m?
    There is always a winner. And more skills come into play….

  • #163897

    I believe cost of fishing matches is still the biggest reason that matchfishing is suffering in places.and not tackle related expense
    petrol,bait bills,pools money for one match etc.
    many have become the same faces every week,and if there is no bait limits,the sponsored anglers are on a head start from everyday joe public from the start.the answer is to have bait limits instead of bait bans.
    some areas have fewer match fishing venues than others,so travelling further afield is often the case,so petrol costs are higher on top of everything else.
    and the main reason for many is they feel they are pools fodder each weekend,so they leave the open circuit and go back to local club matches.

  • #163898

    I don’t think matches are dominated by sponsored anglers
    , I think they are generally won by the venue regulars, the same people fish the same venue week after week, now I for one don’t want to fish the same water three days a week to maybe win a twenty peg match, I think there has been decline in team fishing but I think general matches over a weekend probably have the same amount of people, just spread out over more venues, but back on track, The AIR, will it sell yes, will people say its brilliant/not so brilliant – yes, is it over priced – yes. Lets face it the people which buy top end products want to be seen as using the best, sometimes the most expensive isn’t the best.. And sometimes it is..

  • #163900

    TF_geepster
    Member

    I don’t think matches have the same amount of people, just spread over more venues, at all. I think there are far less fishing opens than, say, five years ago, and that the only area that is buoyant is Vets fishing. I do however agree that the cost of fuel in particular is a big factor, much more so than whether Daiwa have a five grand pole on the market or not. The point I was making about poles is a general one. If you hear/read that a match was won by someone fishing an 18m pole, is it going to put Joe Average off having a go or not? I would say yes. The horse has bolted and it ain’t gonna change; and if I drew a peg where I had to fish at 18m to win of course that’s what I would do, because it’s allowed. It’s just my view.

  • #163902

    Sorry geeps but I have to disagree, I do agree the cost of fuel does have a effect on bigger opens/larger team events, but I don’t think that its is just down to the cost of fuel, a lot of anglers get comfortable with going to the same venue each week knowing that they will pick up money- does that put people off – maybe, I personally think there is a big difference between a open angler and a club angler, not always in ability but the way we think about matches. If I look back ten years club matches and evening matches were well attended, a club with over a thousand members is now lucky to get 15 on a Sunday match, But the 25/30 anglers which use to fish go elsewhere, where they can park behind there peg, have breakfast, I honestly believe if calculated over all open matches there would be more fishing now than five or ten years ago, I think we only see a small percentage in angling press, of what is going on over the country. I may be wrong, just my opinion.

  • #163904

    TF_GLEBE1
    Member

    @chrismoorhead wrote:

    I reckon the average angler must have between 10 and 15 grands worth of tackle

    LOL! get real mate!!

  • #163908

    TF_kid_a
    Member

    Match fishing is in massive terminal decline. This is for a number of reasons, one is cost but I dont believe this is the main reason. The main ones are changing demographics and lack of time.

    In the past when match fishing was in its heyday most of the competitors probably worked shifts therefore condensing their working week into fewer days thus giving them more time to go fishing and do other things like spend time with their family etc… Now most people work 9 to 5 giving them only the weekends to go fishing. So the match angler has a choice either go fishing at the weekend or spend time with their family.

    If you work 9 till 5 and have a family you give a stuff about you dont have enough time to dedicate to match fishing if you want to do it properly. I for one wont do things half hearted which is why I fish less matches than I used to…..

  • #163914

    daiwa are by a mile the best tackle manufacturer out there
    with a customer service team 2nd to none,
    aint seen the air but from what ive been told, unless i fish at 16 meters and over every single week, ill be just as well keeping the airity and saving the money for a rainy day !
    you pays what you can afford really
    its from daiwa so im sure it will be a right bit of kit !
    😉

  • #164008

    last night watched Geep’s ‘Will Raison fishing 1st marginal slope’ (great video by the way) – http://www.total-fishing.com/videos/coarse-and-match-fishing-monthly
    What really stood out was the ease and smoothness of Will – and just how good that Daiwa Air is – arrow straight and he’s really just holding it with one hand at 13m – noticeably without half a section on his forearm.
    Talk about positive feeding !- wonder how many would be brave enough to feed like that in winter – difference is – he’s made a calculated decision -and who else would watch conditions and work out an optimum time to target margins in winter and then have the bollards to work out a strategy!
    Bloke’s awesome – pole looks a more than a little bit good as well, lol

  • #164010

    sounds good,, you got a link dude ?

  • #164012

    have pm ed you the link Lloyd,

    It’s called ‘shelf-life’ parts 1-3

  • #164016

    TF_maker
    Member

    Arrow straight, I would say any pole would be at that short length, still yet to see the air past 16m with its own butt sections???

  • #164017

    Mark Sawyer’s video clip for AT shows the air with 2 (airity?) extentions on , past 16m at Rolf’s.

  • #164018

    Apart from those on order,i would imagine there are very few AIR poles around at the moment.so finding original sections to take the AIR past its 16mt standard length would be difficult.so using the Airity sections was the next best thing.still looked very good past 16mts in the video clip all the same.

  • #164019

    TF_Andy morrison
    Participant

    If you want to form an opinion on the air pole…. DO NOT read any comments on this thread…
    I have mine next to my Airity in the garage NOW!
    I can guarantee the sections do not feel spongy, every section from the five down feels stronger than the Airity.
    It’s marginally stiffer side by side…
    But the recovery after strike (lift) is totally different, settles very fast.

    I have up at the same time next to each other-
    [email protected] 16m (£1200)
    Silver [email protected] 16m (£2600)
    [email protected] 16m (£3750)

    If the Airity is £1400 better than the g20…
    Then the price difference is justified to the air…

    After reading the comments on this thread over the last couple of weeks, I can see why Steve ringer got a bit irrate! Is it that these people don’t know what they are looking at or just make these down falls up to justify not buying one.

    Just go fishing with whatever pole you have, enjoy yourself, and enjoy the Craic!

    I’ll let you know more on my opinion when I finally the over this terminal man flu! And have a go with it!
    I promise! This is an honest unbiased opinion!

  • #164027

    thee tell em flexi lad,,
    bunch of numpties they are ! 😉 😀 😀 😀

    Bit serious for you that mucka,, dunt suit yer,, stick to acting daft ! :p 😀 😀

  • #164033

    TF_eels
    Member

    @Andy morrison wrote:

    If you want to form an opinion on the air pole…. DO NOT read any comments on this thread…
    I have mine next to my Airity in the garage NOW!
    I can guarantee the sections do not feel spongy, every section from the five down feels stronger than the Airity.
    It’s marginally stiffer side by side…
    But the recovery after strike (lift) is totally different, settles very fast.

    I have up at the same time next to each other-
    [email protected] 16m (£1200)
    Silver [email protected] 16m (£2600)
    [email protected] 16m (£3750)

    If the Airity is £1400 better than the g20…
    Then the price difference is justified to the air…

    After reading the comments on this thread over the last couple of weeks, I can see why Steve ringer got a bit irrate! Is it that these people don’t know what they are looking at or just make these down falls up to justify not buying one.

    Just go fishing with whatever pole you have, enjoy yourself, and enjoy the Craic!

    I’ll let you know more on my opinion when I finally the over this terminal man flu! And have a go with it!
    I promise! This is an honest unbiased opinion!

    Bloody big garage1;-)

  • #164037

    Couldnt resist it,, got a call from Billy Clarkes of sheffield to confirm the air had landed ! took it into the car park around the back and had it up against the airity !
    and that was it,, pole sold,, thankyou mr clarke !
    havent been this excited at christmas for years 😀

  • #164038

    TF_GLEBE1
    Member

    @Leaky Lloyd wrote:

    Couldnt resist it,, got a call from Billy Clarkes of sheffield to confirm the air had landed ! took it into the car park around the back and had it up against the airity !
    and that was it,, pole sold,, thankyou mr clarke !
    havent been this excited at christmas for years 😀

    And you got the matching hoodie thrown in too, happy days!!!! 😉

  • #164040

    Pmsl. That aint me. Im the other geezer whos been cut out cos the shrink process on photobucket dunt seem to be workin. Daiwa geezer works at billys. He he he he

    for those who aint seen any comparison reviews, heres a link

    http://rolfslake.com/blog/tag/mark-sawyer/

  • #164230

    TF_Andy morrison
    Participant

    you said.. you’d held the air and the butt sections are thin walled, i think either your telling lies or you don’t know what your looking at! first thing you notice about the air is that the walls are thicker than any other top of the range pole on the market!

    i think it is too easy for people to profess to be knowledgeable behind the anonymity of a computer screen…

  • #164234

    TF_Paddy
    Member

    As may be…………………..
    I am going to leave that last post up (Geeps may want to delete it) as there have been 16,400 views and lots of response on the subject, which is fantastic.
    Lets not make the end of it a finger pointing, accusational post, owing to the fact that it has been so good.

  • #164235

    TF_geepster
    Member

    Yeah Andy careful there – people are entitled to their opinion as long as it’s honestly held.

  • #164236

    TF_Andy morrison
    Participant

    sorry to offend…

    but surely ill formed information is worse than giving no information…

    i was almost put off buying an air.. after reading some on the posts on this thread… they are completely inaccurate!

    the top sponsored angler could give accurate information on products on this site, but they get shot down and give it up as a bad move!

    these well known angler are normal honest approachable people…

    most of them anyway!!!

  • #164237

    TF_Paddy
    Member

    And they still do from time to time – so long may it continue.
    Not every ones opinion will be correct and there will always be a differance in opinion, as you are entitled to yours. 🙂

  • #164239

    TF_redarmy
    Member

    as ill informed as saying the air is thicker walled than any other top end pole ?

  • #164240

    TF_Andy morrison
    Participant

    is it not?
    another field tester!!!!!!

  • #164241

    TF_redarmy
    Member

    not even looked at diawa,s or map so cant comment but how can you be 100% that the air is thicker walled than any other top end pole ? surely thats just your opinion not fact.i use tricast and consider them the strongest top end poles ive ever owned but again thats just my opnion.

  • #164242

    TF_Andy morrison
    Participant

    fair play…
    its very thick walled, much thicker than the airity, took the skin off my hand first time out shipping over the joints…

  • #164244

    TF_redarmy
    Member

    the problem is andy because the air costs so much i think people who have no intention of buying one want to find fault.

  • #164252

    hi guys,
    this my first post on the forum,and ive read the whole thread on this subject. firstly id like to just say ,with regards to comments made about the strength and wall thickness etc etc and how easily they will break…i know a few of the anglers that have been field testing the “air” and they are total bagging machines !! this pole would have been taken to every possible extreme to break it ,so Daiwa can correct any problems. yes the walls may seem thin compared to the £1500 pole that you may own,but thats why the price tag is so high,hence the technology to have thin walls and be as strong as a margin pole !! as for reports of poles breaking,,the air pole is no different to any other pole on the market,,just because its expensive,its doesnt mean it wont snap !! when you put it away ,and you slip the sections inside each other at the end of the day, it only takes one bit of grit in a section to create a tiny bit of damage ( weve all done it ), but this damage may never bee seen until the pole is under extreme pressure .. then bang !! and then of course we all blame the pole !! lol !!
    So,the promo price of the “Air” is £3750.. however ,this is considered to the Best pole in the world.( Angling times Mark Sawyer tackle test) so in hindsight you get what you pay for.
    In 1990 i purchased ,the then “best pole in the world” the Daiwa Amorphous 16 metre pole ,in 1990 that cost me £3156 !! and that was at trade price ! i kept that pole for 6 years , and when i sold it i got £1500 for it !!
    Lets face it guys ,the resale values for daiwa top of the range poles is excellent,and this has to play a part when deciding on which top end pole you want to purchase,cos after a few years we all like to upgrade our poles,and its the same for what ever level or pole you fish with at present.ive had a look at the new air and yes ,it is an awesome bit of kit,and yes i am very tempted to buy one.i havent had a Daiwa pole for 6 years and am currently using
    a Fox Envoy Elite which is a brilliant pole,super stiff and proper strong.
    with regards to how many will Daiwa sell.. they have sold all of their first batch and 90% of the next batch are already sold with delivery due not until february,so IMO it speaks for its self. its all down to whether you can afford it or can justify paying the massive price tag !
    same as everything in life,you only get what you pay for !!!

  • #164253

    @westyg GBH wrote:

    hi guys,
    this my first post on the forum,and ive read the whole thread on this subject. firstly id like to just say ,with regards to comments made about the strength and wall thickness etc etc and how easily they will break…i know a few of the anglers that have been field testing the “air” and they are total bagging machines !! this pole would have been taken to every possible extreme to break it ,so Daiwa can correct any problems. yes the walls may seem thin compared to the £1500 pole that you may own,but thats why the price tag is so high,hence the technology to have thin walls and be as strong as a margin pole !! as for reports of poles breaking,,the air pole is no different to any other pole on the market,,just because its expensive,its doesnt mean it wont snap !! when you put it away ,and you slip the sections inside each other at the end of the day, it only takes one bit of grit in a section to create a tiny bit of damage ( weve all done it ), but this damage may never bee seen until the pole is under extreme pressure .. then bang !! and then of course we all blame the pole !! lol !!
    So,the promo price of the “Air” is £3750.. however ,this is considered to the Best pole in the world.( Angling times Mark Sawyer tackle test) so in hindsight you get what you pay for.
    In 1990 i purchased ,the then “best pole in the world” the Daiwa Amorphous 16 metre pole ,in 1990 that cost me £3156 !! and that was at trade price ! i kept that pole for 6 years , and when i sold it i got £1500 for it !!
    Lets face it guys ,the resale values for daiwa top of the range poles is excellent,and this has to play a part when deciding on which top end pole you want to purchase,cos after a few years we all like to upgrade our poles,and its the same for what ever level or pole you fish with at present.ive had a look at the new air and yes ,it is an awesome bit of kit,and yes i am very tempted to buy one.i havent had a Daiwa pole for 6 years and am currently using
    a Fox Envoy Elite which is a brilliant pole,super stiff and proper strong.
    with regards to how many will Daiwa sell.. they have sold all of their first batch and 90% of the next batch are already sold with delivery due not until february,so IMO it speaks for its self. its all down to whether you can afford it or can justify paying the massive price tag !
    same as everything in life,you only get what you pay for !!!

    In my opinion a very well balanced first post!!!!!!

  • #164263

    TF_mpo38
    Member

    Having had daiwa for years and owning the top end poles from the range I have found them to be very good for myself ( i have tried different makes but always gone back quickly ). Its very personal but also what you believe is comfortable for you and what your happy to pay. I started with the lower end poles and now fish with an airity coz i can, not coz i’m any good lol. As for the service from daiwa, having been involved purchasing their gear for over 20 years I can’t remember having any bad experiences with them and always had good service from them, not that i have needed to speak to them much. Suppose that’s why I use Daiwa really !! Each to their own but get the facts right first.

  • #164270

    TF_badger
    Participant

    Another thing to take into consideration is how most Daiwa poles hold their value compaired to other makes.

  • #164400

    Woody
    Member

    I had the opportunity to see an Air for the first time yesterday.It was being put through its paces by Steve Ringer at Meadowlands. Iwasn’t fishing myself so had a walk round and sat behind Steve for while. Steve had drawn a peg that isn’t for the faint hearted and was fishing the pole at full length over to branches that are partly submerged.
    Steve was hitting carp and the way he was throwing the pole around, there certainly seems to be no issues regarding the poles strength.
    The other noticable factor was that he was occasionaly holding the pole one handed with the end of the dolly but (16.5 metres i assume) tucked under his elbow so presumanly the pole must be light enough and very well balanced to be able to hold it like this. The pole appeared to be very straight too.
    To sum up, yes the pole is very expensive but i guess if you can afford it, making pole fishing at long lengths easier and more comfortable to do makes perfect sense to me.

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