Carpmagic was on about this subject on here a few weeks ago its a good idea but it only offers the same properties as soft set elastic and a pull bung.

I seem to recall an article a good while back where Mr Scotthorne does a similar thing, now where did I put it.

That’s a point, how do you know how to set your elastic? I tend to work on the basis of dividing the length on the winder, by the length of my kit, rather than anything else.

surely most fish are lost at the net,I think the way I fish, I’m better off having less power, and a bigger net !!

Its probably going to be the latest fad everyone will be filling their topkits full of multi stranded elastics next thing will be 4 lengths of no2 elastic will be better than a no8 and so on, i think 2 pieces of elastic over time will harbour more dirt and particles than a single strand.

I only change my elastic when its showing signs of wear changing your elastic every 3 weeks is like changing your socks 6 times a day !

I have had some black hydro in one of my poles now 3 years i occasionally remove a couple of inches and take a couple of inches of the stora bung and its fine,with a bit of luck it will see its 5th birthday !

I don’t get it. If for example doubled up no.6 is the equivelent of a no.10, why not just use a no 10? What is the point?

Im going to see if the guinness book off records will accept my claim for longest serving length of hydro elastic !

I have some red preston hollo in a couple of kits somewhere but its new its only been in about 18 months.

I must have some black hydro that is going on now for perhaps 4 years of age and it is still in excellent condition! I check my elastics every couple of weeks, but i dont change anything over until it shows signs of wear. Its just wasteful.

Peter your the daddy you have the oldest piece of hydro elastic now !

my hydro are just babies then… only just gone 3 y/o…. gave em all a trim for the birthdays and good as new.

@baitchef wrote:

I don’t get it. If for example doubled up no.6 is the equivelent of a no.10, why not just use a no 10? What is the point?

I did a not scientific experiment and couldn’t find a lot of difference to be honest. Two length of thinner elastic seemed to act no different to one thicker.

Has anybody done a proper test on the amount of pull?

Got to admit that I am missing the point of this, how does doubled upo laccy differ from just normal laccy ?

Im not putting it down just fail to see the advantage !!

Still doesnt make sense, a 12 set correctly will come out with a 5oz roach on but will be powerfull enough to land 5 pound carp.

Doesnt hollow elastic offer the same properties as those mentioned for doubled up solid ?

But its a good way of selling the angler twice as much elastic 😉

but latex is less than half the price of hollow, so still better for the skinflints amongst us.

I’m dabbling with Latex at the moment, my Drennan having finally given up the ghost.I found last night that 6 month old Garbo 12, is not as strong as .15 !!!.

Think it must have had a nick in it.

I agree Steve is a fantastic angler and Alan scotthorne is a master tactician hes always meddeling with something but personally im not so eager to jump on the band wagon with this one!

LOL AW,

When i bought some new black hydro i compared it to the other top kit and found the new stuff was definately slimmer in diameter than the older stuff!

Mind you the black hydro might only get used once or twice a year….. and might see daylight only when i change it from that top kit into a new top kit!

Scrooge perhaps comes to mind, anyway back on subject…

I dont think that a double elastic offers any better a performance than correctly set elastic, matched to the fish your catching.
My personal opinion, plus your doubleing the weight of elastic in the top kit, and as said above collects twice as much rubbish.

What happens if on side snaps….mmmm fun lol

Black hydro has a lot less chance of snapping than 1 of the doubled up lengths of say No6

Apologies because I have not read all the threads nor have I bought AT this week but…… is this system not like the same one evryone used years ago where you had a No6 laccy say with a bead then heavier laccy like No12/14. The soft stretched initialy which saved bumping off silvers and when you hooked a lump the bead would stop the soft laccy from pulling through and the heavier laccy would come into play ~think

Err, No.
Same elastic, doubled up through top kit.

No not quite jake, perhaps a little re-wording should have been used.

If a single strand elastic set up snaps then so be it, you lose the elastic and fish.

Should a single strand on a double elastic system..lets say a doubled up number 6..snaps then all of a sudden that number 12 equivilant has now turned into a number 6…with an angry carp etc on the end, all im saying is that it could be a little bit of amusement for the anglers around you.

I personally do not believe it has any benefits over normal elastication methods.
I tried this a long time ago, and i didnt think much to it then.

@Anthonywaters wrote:

Im going to see if the guinness book off records will accept my claim for longest serving length of hydro elastic !

There are some anglers on here had the stuff longer than 5 years (I think)

@Glenn Archer wrote:

Err, No.
Same elastic, doubled up through top kit.

I also do not understand the benefits of this way, its seems to me you would be better off ditching the latex and buying some Hydrolastic at least it will do both jobs ~think

(that should get a bite LOL)

Sorry to disappoint you chaps but I have a black hydro in one top kit that I’ve had almost since it first came out ! How old is that ?

Double elastic was what we used when the thickest you could get was number 8. Sounds like someone’s struggling to find something to do an article about.

All i can say on this matter is try it for yourselves. Alan Scotthorne put me onto it around 6 months ago and i like most of the above was very sceptical. Alan on the other hand doesnt come up with ‘Gimmicks’ so i decided it had to be worth a try. Suffice to say i did try it and its certainly different. A double 5 is ideal for F1’s or skimmers whilst still giving me more than enough strength to land a proper Carp (8lb plus). As to what a double 5 compares to in theory its a 10. But in practice it acts nothing like a 10 latex. Dont believe me? Then try it for yourselves. Then and only then can you start stating its the same as this and the same as using that. If it was the same as using a 10 elastic for instance then believe me i wouldnt be using it as whats the point?

Nice comment Courtney, id be interested to see your findings from your obviously extensive testing. As for struggling for something to write about then i take that as a personal insult. The double elastic is something that i have really taken to and as a consequence has generated a lot of interest on the bank plus emails amd messages asking how to set it up. I dont believe in using things just for the sake of it contrary to what you clearly believe.

trie this b4 xmas and still use it to this day, doubled up 5 latex is brilliant for decent silvers/f1 shallow, ask another one gone, he watched me empty blyton one day using it . got to get the right brand of latex though, got maver through one which is perfect for silvers/f1s, and a 5 garb through another thats heavier acting and better for 1-2lb carp

I have been using double 4 for silvers and I would say it probably actcs like a 5 or 6 on the strike but when a carp takes it out it acts as strong as an 8 or 10,I believe it’s great for when there are bigger fish than your target species,I am contemplating double 8 latex for carp between 2lb and 8lb

Another big advantage is the actual weight of the elastic, Get some digital scales and check the difference. Then put that weight at the end of a long pole and see how it alters the reaction time and rigidity. Its no gimmick.

Will you be using it for the forthcoming festivals Steve? I tried it many moons ago, and it did nothing for me, like most above, I do not see the benefits, to me the greatest addition to pole fishing has been the pull bung, with the elastic being pulled from the side of the pole that Adam Wakilin invented.

Steve, some typical responses from those who dont think about there angling.

I do have a question though. The venues I fish tend to have a mixture of carp averaging 4-6lb, plus silvers like a skimmers.

When I 1st saw Alans article a few months ago in Match Angling, must admit I started to wonder about the benefits.

The problem with hydro I find is on the initial strike, I can bump any silvers that turn up, which in winter can be costly, and obviously any carp on light elastic can take an age to land.

I assume from your article, that if I fish doubled elastic say no.6 or 8, then the initial strike will be soft enough not to bump the silvers, but I will be able to land those 4-6lb carp in the same way as a 12 latex?

Ken, try a doubled up no.5. I think it might just be what you are looking for. Either that or a doubled up no.6 set slack. In the celeb fisho at cudmore i fished with Alan and we used a doubled up no.6 set soft for Roach in the 4-6oz bracket and it was sock on.

Skip i have no probs with people who have tried it and decided it wasnt for them. I have tried hollows and really dont get on with them but that doesnt mean they are rubbish. It just winds me up when people dismiss something as a ‘page filler’. And yes i shall be using it at whiteacres.

doubled up lazzy has been goin for donkeys years if u cast your mind back a few years a zim 8 was probally the highest lazzy around and most of the lads with pole who fished the canals(the sankey)were doubling up lazzy or even puttin power gum through the poles to get the tench/carp out the sticks so it seems to have gone full circle as things tend to do

Sorry mate, didn’t mean to offend. I just think that at the end of the day elastic is just stretchy stuff which stretches less if it’s thick and more if it’s thin for a given amount of pull. The fact that doubled up 5 acts differently to a 10 suggests that the total thickness is different. Whatever. I’ll leave you to it.

Maybe if your unlucky enough to draw in my section, you could let me have a look up at your set up, stopped buying all the papers and mags yonks ago lol.

Steve

do you think there is a big difference between using a doubled up latex elastic as opposed to a doubled solid say like a solid 4 or 6 ?

The only reason I ask is early here this year I tried a solid vespe 6 doubled for our winter matches and first time I fished it hooked 2 of the larger size fish (7 to 9 lbs) that maxed it out fast and really put some strain on my pole and was just wondering if the latex doubled would be a little more forgiving.

The venue we fished mostly throws up fish from 8 oz to 4 lbs and is the reason I tried the double set up but I really had visions of my top kits or no.4 going bang that day
Maybe I should try latex instead next time

Steve, how do you set up a double elastic?

Like steve says it might not be everybodies cup of tea,personally i use to double up zim no 8 ,20 years ago when i use to fish venues like moorlands farm & Hawkesbury farm,but with such a huge variety of elastics on the market today,i do not see the point.

At anyone time i will carry 9 topkits with my spectron: 3 x white hydro(4.5 years & still going strong),3 x black hydro,3 x purple hydro.This i find covers all my summer and winter fishing.If the fish are much bigger then i simply switch poles to my xrs which has : 1 x red hydro,1 x solid 25,1 x 25 bungee,1 x middy 22,& 1 x 25 solid through the tip section.I dont use pull bungs or any other devices and catch and lose as many fish as most people who use this site . imho ~think

Lots of anglers used the doubled up elastic I can remember Dickie Carr around 10 years ago showing me his pole kits with it in, he was absolutely sold on using this way of elasticating pole kits, doubled up no 8 if my memory serves me corectly, he advocated that it was soft, ideal, for the first couple of foot but then the power of the doubled up elastic comes into play for bigger fish, I beleive at the time all the Dorking lads were using it which is what dickie told me, however as Steve says it’s individual choice and you have to use what suits your style, one thing I have found out that trying to copy another anglers style does not work for everyone. Take Gary Thope in advanced pole fishing he uses big elastics red and brown hydro, it obviously works for him, however unless I am using very big hooks and strong gear I suffer hook pulls, everyones different, elastics need to be taylored to the type of fishing you do, the size of fish and more importantly the style you fish,a flexible approach is required when fishing as does thought into what you are trying to acheive, no one would use a doubled up no 6 on drayton carp, likewise no one in there right mind would use brown hydro at monks, apply thought to what you are doing and play to your strengths.

Read this thread with interest and I would like to add one final comment – I do not fish the same circuit as Steve but I do fish the same circuit as Alan Scothorne.
Alan showed us this set up months ago and if the likes of Alan and subsequently Steve are telling you something about a way in which they fish then I for one gladly accept any advice these guys offer us. It isn’t a gimmick or Alan wouldn’t be using it which I can guarantee you he does…. These guys are at the very top of the sport and have nothing to fear from us mere mortals, I have always found the top anglers very approachable open and honest, they might not tell you everything but I believe that what they do tell is the truth.
I read all articles by these men and again from what I have said previously in knowing Alan I know what he writes in the angling press is accurate information ……DON’T BE SCEPTACLE JUST GRAB EVERY BIT OF INFO THEY OFFER AND USE IT TO HELP IMPROVE YOUR OWN RESULTS.

I started using doulbled solid elastic about 3 years ago for my margin fishing (particulary at High Flyer lakes in Ely where it was key to land fish quickly) Although I havent used doubled up light grades like the 5s & 6s mentioned I have used it in 8s & 10s. The difference to the comparable single elastic grade is vast. A doubled 8s works completely differently to a standard 16. Firstly on the strike it is very similar, if not softer than the standard, however as a fish run’s the doubled elstic seems to have more stopping power compared to a some what ‘flimsy’ feeling 16s and at the net the double elastic has more power and doesn’t require a pulla bung or 5m of pole in the air to land a fish!!

I also found that when stopping the initial run and shipping back to the top kit, with the tip of the pole close to the water the double elastic does bring the fish to the net a lot quicker than the equivelant single grade.

Give it a go, rig up two top kits one with doubled 8s, one with a 16s. You will be suprised with the result.

Jon

I can remember Joe Roberts extolling the virtues of doubled up latex at one of the Stafford Moor festivals a while back. I think he was running a continuous length of latex through his top kit to a small ring inside the loop & external to the bush with both “loose ends” being secured @ the bung end? I didn’t manage to find acopy of AT that week can I ask how SR’s set up works?

I have had a little time to think about this & have come to the conclusion that it has to be a physical matter. If a fish uses a certain amount of energy to pull a single length of elastic a certain distance in a given time scale, then it stands to reason that in order to pull two lengths of identical elastic the exact same distance in the same time scale, it will be required to use twice as much energy. Therefore in theory by using two lengths of elastic, the initial run will probably be similar as with a single piece of elastic, but subsequent runs will require significantly more energy resulting in the fish pulling less distance of elastic & tiring quickly as it uses its energy reserves faster as it tries to achieve the same distance.

I suspect that you can obtain similar results by just stepping up a grade of elastic instead of doubling up, but there is sure to be a difference. It is exactly these differences, no matter how small however, that i think sets Alan apart from the rest of us. Logical thinking like is is just one of the many reasons why he is a better angler than the majority of us.

The Beads are made by Nash and are from the TT range. They are 5mm teardrops.

good of you to come and explain Steve,

I was one who commented about not seeing the point, however its not neccessary for people to get personal about your reasons for writing about the method, I dont support that one bit.

I can start to see why you would use it, not sure I will yet but its something to consider for the future, my fishing inthe main doesnt require the set ups you explain, hence my reasons for not wanting to try it just yet.

Carpmagic. Still got a few dates in my diary…..

You can learn the Random Casting method and Losing Fish Stylishly….

You know it makes sense!

BnF…Have you no dignity?

🙂

I don’t know how people can slate this method. seen Mr Scotthorne using this last xmas at lindholme. if he’s using it can’t be rubbish he is the best angler ever IMO. so maybe if you think you are better we will see you winning the world champs next time~think ~think.

Billy you forgot a lesson in bait management(ordering and supply).

Was thinking of trying doubled up red hydro on Drayton next monday. That’ll tame them!!~naughty

Firstpeg, you grass that was to be the suprise ‘extra’ in the package. Now you’ve spoilt it for him.

Jm what’s diggerty, digernometry, that word you used?!!

I think i will stick with what I am using, it works for me. Doubled up Preston slip elastic. Dont ask me why but i cant get other elastics to work the same. That could be why so many people pooh pooh the idea. They have tried it will the wrong elastic.

You are right about Preston original as i have tried it with Preston fluoro and it doesnt work anywhere near the same.

Just picked this thread up with interest and have to say it’s what winds me up with people in general-“If it isn’t there way or they aren’t doing it,it must be crap”

Too many know it all’s who know fook all!!

How many people would be as good as they are if there were no innovative anglers out there?

Now thats interesting, perhaps i should try it with the preston slip elastic, as when i tried it years ago i used the preston flouro!

Steve, do you lubricate the elastic as normal or just use water?

Also with a doubled up no5 what lines would you be using, same with doubled 6 and 8.

I remember Joe roberts doing an article in ATA at makins phase 3? using riddled meat and doubled up sensas 0.12mm latex, and thats when i think i tried it.

Would you see a benefit in using a doubled up hollow then?

I havent tried doubled up hollow, that isnt to say it isnt worth a go though.

As for what lines for what elastics i have been using 0.10,0.12 or 0.14 with doubled up 5 and 0.14 and 0.16 with double 6. Lastly double 8 with either 0.16 or 0.18.

Lubricant wise i use just water, which is funny as i normally use lube but doubled up elastic seems to stick with lube.

Doubled up pure latex will be worth a try as im pretty sure Andy pell (Tractorboy) on here already uses it.

Pete, i’d heard you are a big fan of lube…..

You should know, you recommended it from personal experience!

Cheers Steve,

Gonna experiment tomorrow with some doubled up latex again and some doubled up hollow, in the lighter grades of course lol.

think this it brilliant, to be frank was in awe of the size of the fish that Alan had in M/F the month after he mentioned it. Carpmagic’s article certainly gave me the confidence to try and do this and the description of his own set-up was sock-on, must be brilliant for mixed species main lines and the weight advantage as well. Carpmagic, do you use that tidy hooklength ‘half’ knot(replacing loop to loop),that Alan had also developed a while back in A/T? also lost that copy and have never seen it repeated elsewhere.

Now lube on my braid,thats a different story, i will try anything that gets me extra distance.

Wightangler, no i havent tried the knot Alan mentioned in the article. He did show me but to be honest when i got home i couldnt remember how to do it!!!!

Steve, don’t worry mate i’ll show you……

@Billy no Fish wrote:

Steve, don’t worry mate i’ll show you……

Steve, i will wager that the first call you make when you get home will be to the Samaritans.

Surly the principle remains the same regardless of what elastic you use? As with a conventional single piece of elastic, the further away you go from matching the size of the elastics to the size of fish, the less you are going to notice any advantages. In principle what is happening here is that whilst the majority of you are all using the same elastics, Alan is in effect using a grade that doesn’t exist that is different to what everybody else is using.
Or have I got the totally wrong idea?

I think this is a very advanced concept doubling up your elastic i think for the average angler like me the focus of angling should be getting rigs and feeding patterns right etc, doubling up elastic may make you loose less fish but it wont make you catch anymore fish if your fundemental things like your rigs and your feeding are not spot on!

Can someone explain to me how Steve sets this system up please?

Just buy the Angling Times you tight git ! LOL

Curses I’ve ben rumbled LOL!

I thought it was in last weeks though?

Actually I did try but they’re not big on fishing papers in South harrow (office) newsagents.

Steve, are you putting the double elastic through match kits with the No1 removed or power kits?

?????????????

Steve doesn’t respond to Garbolino owners,:o)

If i put double 16 latex in a margin pole will it stop the Drayton carp?

Doubt if it will stop it, may slow it down a bit though.lol

I will be useing my usual set up on Monday, hope I draw better than last year.

Chris, i have set a top kit up with 3ft of laccy just for the boards. Will that be to much or should i shorten it a bit?

Match kit with the no.1 removed.

Cheers for that Steve.

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to obtain the issue from Angling Times. Could somebody scan or explain how Steve sets up this system. Thanks a lot!

BTTT.

Well done mate. Will have a scan through when the game has finished!

You are welcome YOUNG man lol.

btt for the guy asking on another thread ~think

Handbags at dawn?

Think im gonna give this a go. Going to replace my 12 latex with doubled 6,the 10’s with doubled 5 and the 8’s with doubled 4. All in Preston Slip. Also going to change over from the crows foot to dacron connection. Does anyone know where I can get some of the Nash tt 5mm beads? Also, what’s the best dacron to use for the connection?

I use 35lb dacron I got it on ebay from the states about 500 yds for about 10 quid,also use korda tail rubbers (you can cut them to any size you want) and never had a problem

i’ve noticed the preston slip starts at no.4. I fancy replacing my no 6’s with doubled latex, which would obviously involve a no:3. Garbolino do 3’s,has anyone tried this?

100, it was begging!

The preston slip starts in a 3 (green) Bag Up Angling Sheffield – 01142 466670 have both the Nash TT beads and the 3 preston slip elastic in

cheer kev,call me a tackle tart but I don’t like using coloured latex,prefer natural!lol

Don’t just try 5/6 rubbers doubled up 2/3 are very good for bagging weights of roach when the odd tench or bream turn up.

A preston slip no:5 is 0.91mm in diameter. Doubled up it would be 1.82mm, whereas a standard no:10 is 1.4mm. Would this mean a doubled 5 is stronger than a 10 and actually closer to a single 14 which is 1.8mm

if you have trouble getting the beads. steve ringer told me about the korda helicopter beads.brill imo

i’ve managed to get some of the beads cheers mate. How important is the breaking strain of the dacron? Would 15lb be ok or do you need the 30lb + stuff?

Sorry chaps I missed the article is there a series of pictures or a blow by blow description of how to set up the double elastic from bung to tip?

Hope someone can help…

This is what i do: –
1. cut a 5m spool of Gargo latex in half.
2. double up the 2.5m length and tie a suitable crows foot with the loose ends.
3. at the doubled end i tie an over hand knot to ensure the 2 lengths stay equal!
4. thread the elastic down my top kit (as if it was a normal length of elastic)
5. tie it to the dacron coming of my winder bung and tension it.

I can do 2 top kits for the price of a spool of latex!

I wouldnt have thought 2.5 would do two topkits? That leaves 1.25m doubled,around 62cm. My topkits are longer than that,surely one spool of latex would double up for one topkit? Also,slightly off topic,looking at getting the best dacron for the connectors….what’s best? Dont fancy it in a bright colour, prefer black if possible.

No, the 5 metre spool will do 2 top kits. with 1.25m of doubled elastic, with the rest of the top kit length taken up with dacron.

sorry mate,misread your post there!I see you said 5m. I’m not fishing atall for the next few weeks (blame the mrs) so im going to re-do all of my topkits with the doubled latex and dacron to stave off the boredom!

I missed this article, would somebody please scan it & send it to me?

welshmagic no problem with 15lb dacron mate.

If someone is kind enough to send the scanned article to BillyNM please could they add me to the cc list?

And me please.

just set this system up in a few kits,looks great. The only problem I can see is it seems to ‘stick’ alot more than single elastic. Not sure if this is because the double 6 is a lot thicker than a single 10? Only really seems to be a problem in the matchkits with the doubled 6,doubled 4’s and 5’s seem ok. Anyone else had a similar problem?

check out the doubled elastic thread,carpmagic has posted for easy step guide.

Baitchef has it spot with this, at last somebody talking sense !:

“I have had a little time to think about this & have come to the conclusion that it has to be a physical matter. If a fish uses a certain amount of energy to pull a single length of elastic a certain distance in a given time scale, then it stands to reason that in order to pull two lengths of identical elastic the exact same distance in the same time scale, it will be required to use twice as much energy. Therefore in theory by using two lengths of elastic, the initial run will probably be similar as with a single piece of elastic, but subsequent runs will require significantly more energy resulting in the fish pulling less distance of elastic & tiring quickly as it uses its energy reserves faster as it tries to achieve the same distance.”

Except time is not really a factor, it is purely the energy input from the fish that determines the stretch of either double or single elastics. Also do not confuse weight with force.

Think of it like this, lets say it takes a force of “2KG” to stretch a 2m long piece of No 10’s elastic by an additional 1m. You can’t use a 2KG weight for this as the elastic reacts to this weight and the 2KG isn’t 2KG anymore. What you are trying to do here is guage the elastics reaction to an applied force, and you create this force with pull scales. That way, there will always be a 2KG measured force acting on the elastic.

If you now get 2 pieces of 10’s elastic side by side, both 2m long and repeat the test, you will see that when you pull the scales to 2kG, the double elastic will have extended by the same 1M. What you won’t see is that the energy you had to input on the pull of those scales to acchieve a 1m stretch at 2KG force will have doubled. You are basically working twice as hard to get the same result.

In a scientific sense when doubling elastics, you have to regard that potentially a double 10 is equivalent to a single 20, this is because it will take the same amount of energy to bottom out 2 x 10’s, as 1 x 20, and this might over stress your pole rating. Also there is the reverse work you do with the pole acting on the elasitcs to consider.

In the real world, as baitchef said, the energy the fish needs to input to gather a certain distance is more with double elastic, and this tires them quicker, and still leaves you some elastic in the pole.

I fish with double 12 in a 16 rated pole with no problem. The beauty of double elastic is that you can fish at a rating that will not bump fish so readily, yet it has the resitance in reserve if a lump comes along.

In my experience, 3/4’s of my pole’s max elastic rating being doubled has caused me no problems. If you used half your pole rating and doubled it you are not gaining anything for chance bigger fish, only softening bump off’s for smaller.

There’s alot of bum advice going about on this subject for my money. To make sweeping statements that a “double 10 is just like a single 12” is bad advice. A double 10 may ‘act’ like a single 12 with certain size fish, but if you hook an intercity 125 with double 10, you’ll end up with a broken pole if your pole is only rated to 12.