@paulnewell wrote:

Is it now the right of owner to dictate how that money is paid back ..?? Should the anglers who pay in have a legitimate right to clearly see the balance every day. ?? Should the bonus peg be structured in such away that it is possible for a winner to actually win a decent chunk of it. ?? Or ?? Is it alright now for commy owners to hang on to substantial sums of anglers money and then decide to use it to promote their fishery. ????? If a man in a working mans club behaved like that with the lads money I think he it might be said that he had rude attitude and behaviour. ! He might be called something stronger ! Come on lads get off the fence, and give us some honest opinions! 😮 :confused:

i agree it should be all accounted for maybe a list of monies collected thats what i would do any way .if you pay a pound it should go in the pot or pots dependent on how high they let it go not in the owners pocket .i go to a few fisheries that because there is so much money in the pots they have about 4 bonus pegs

I don’t see the point in golden pegs personally you may aswell plough it into a winner takes all and increase the winners money every week, I like having a quid with the lads, I have heard a few fisheries using it to their advantage when the cashpot is big, I wouldn’t visit a venue just because the golden peg was 500 quid

I think I would. If bonus pegs build up why not go to the fishery, someone has to win it. I have done it in the past and would do it again.

Are golden pegs optional? I only fish one series of matches that run one, so I just pay it and trust the match organiser to keep it all above board. Maybe if folk don’t feel they can trust the organiser/fishery owner they could ask not to be entered into the golden peg, I realise this may cause extra work for the organiser but he might think its worth it to avoid any mistrust or confusion. Thinking about it maybe like someone else said golden pegs are not such a good idea and the extra quid or what ever should just go into the main pools.

Should be £s for the peg fee. Winners £s, second and thirds £s, plus section £s. You should know how much is being payed out to the main prize winners and the section winners, including the size of each section before the all-in. Then we all know what we are fishing for. If there is a bonus ball or bonus/golden peg. You should know how much is being taken out of the pools and there should be a running total. I dont think there should be a limit on the size of the bonus to create a second or third pot for when the first pot is won. The bonus prize should also be known before the start of each match. Not sure most anglers even think of how much the fishery owner gets for running a match on his fishery. Think it would shock many if they totted up there cut of the pools money that fishery owners get against the amount the winner of the match wins. ( Fishery owner wins every time! ). Eg, 30 anglers, £20 pools. £7 peg fee. £1 golden peg/bonus ball = £30 in to the pot. £12 x 30 = £360. 6 section prizes of £20 every 5 pegs = £120. £240 for the top 3 anglers in the match. 50%, 30%, 20% = 1st- £120, 2nd- £70, 3rd- £50. Fishey owner gets £210.

I dont like bonus balls or bonus pegs. It has very little to do with match fishing as its a lucky draw. You might have to win a match to have a chance of winning the golden pot of cash. However, i,ve seen enough bonus balls won by anglers who only win the odd match while regular winners of matches never get lucky at the bonus ball draw. Seen enough venues that have got very popular when the bonus ball gets big. Once the money has been won. Those angers disapear until the golden pot has grown to massive levels. Seen plenty of fiddling where bonus pegs are concerned by anglers fiddling the winner when a mate is on the golden peg.

If you want a bonus pot. Let the owner/match organiser take some of the pools money each week to create a golden pot. Then have a one off match for all the anglers who have fished a high number of matches in a specific period of time. This way it rewards those anglers who fish the same match week after week. Creates a fun day where even if you dont win. You do at least get a free (although you did pay for) big match.

On a personal point of view. I hate the way our pools and match fees are today in our average open matches. We dont pay enough pools money to start with. I was paying £20 pools 20 years ago! We pay to much in peg fees and they keep going up. Section sizes are fare to small. 10 peg sections please! Bonus pegs just draw the same anglers back to the fishery in the hope of being lucky instead of the fishery offtering good value for our money. The winner of a match should feel lke he has achived something and has a fat wallet to prove it. We are lucky to cover the costs of the next match if you win these days!

Could anyone advise me if the situation regarding payouts in general has changed?
There was a big bust up some years ago on a top commercial and a top angler when the angler thought he should have had a section prize only to find none were on offer.

Clearly the payout structure is governed by how many fish but I just wonder at how many opens individual anglers know how the payout works.
As a club we have a standard spread sheet showing pools against how many fish and what will be paid to who before we draw. This is not difficult to do so if the structure is not clear I would be concerned that all is not as it should be.
The same applies to golden pegs in my view, everyone should know and understand how the rules apply. Leaving it until after the match to argue is very dangerous.

John I seem to remember someone spitting the dummy out because hed beaten all the anglers around him and there were no section money

He was a top top angler too, who many regard as probably the best to ever fish. If he was caught out I would think the vast majority are fishing ignorant of what the payout rules are.
I repeat that, in my opinion, those who do not inform, have something to hide, why else would they not be open?
I dont object to what fishery owners charge or take out, they should just tell us.

I hate bonus pegs personaly i think the money shud get spread out over the main list etc.

our club run a bonus peg its optional capped at £30 so at the end of the year there can be several pegs and if its not won it goes towards the first rounds at the xmas do not a lot of money just a laf and usally you end up getting free drinks for it [£70s worth last year] not much money no arguments lots of money arguments same old story 🙁

JohnH, im not sure there ever was a fixed set of rules regarding payouts for open matches. 30 years ago you sort of knew where you where with the split of cash for the winners (top 3) in your average small open match of anything from 20 to 50 anglers. It was always 50%, 30%, 20% of the total pools after peg fee,s had been taken out. The smaller opens often did not have sections. So, you where fishing for just the top 3 places in the match.

If sections where payed out in open matches. They would generally be 10-15 anglers in each section. Those section payouts where very small. Seen the odd 50 pegger with only 2 sections of 25 anglers. You where lucky if you doubled your pools money at best if you won your section in those days. If you won the match. You also won your section. No default section winners! Default sections are the norm today! These section sizes and payouts seemed to be mirroring the payouts of team events where it was the norm to payout section prizes. However, winning a big team match could produce some massive payouts to the winners because these team events where often big matches of more than 100 anglers. £15 pools gave me a payout of £420 for winning one winter league match. A 2nd place in another produced £280 winnings. In the mid-1980s that was a nice days work!

The norm seemed to be that if the match organisers wanted to spread the pools money out a little more. It was better to payout the top 4, 5 or 6 anglers rather than pay out lots of small sections. This was only if the number of anglers was quite big by todays standards. E,g, 40 anglers so they sometimes payed the top 4. 50 anglers so they payed the top 5 and so on.

Sections where just an add on for the bigger open matches and i suspect they came from team matches such as the winter leagues. If there where 15 teams in a league. 15 sections would be payed out. If each team had 10 anglers in each team. There would be 10 section prizes every 15 pegs. At best a section payout would be worth twice your pools money but often it was just your money back. £10 to £15 and a £30 section prize was a big section payout even in team events. It was quite simple to understand the payouts for sections and the main prize lists in those days.

Worst case of not knowing what was going on with the pools money payout for me came in a Premier fisheries event. The top 4 anglers from a number of qualifiers on Premier fisheries gained entry to a big money final on the Glebe. The final was to be a big money payout to the top 3, plus no sections of more than 9 anglers. Win your no more than 9 peg section. You win £450. I qualified for the final and drew a peg on the Big lake. 14 anglers where on this lake. So, based on all the publicity. There was 2 sections of 7 anglers. It works out at £50 per angler in each section. So, £350 to the winner of each of these 2 sections. I was aware that on all the other lakes. There where 8 or 9 anglers. I struggled for 60lb but beat everybody except the last 3 anglers at the other end of the lake. Clearly, they where in the other secion to me. Happy days i thought with the section win and £350 in my back pocket. How wrong i was or was i wrong? At the prize giving. All the section winners picked up £450 for winning a 9 peg section as advertised (lake win), or £400 for an 8 peg section (lake win). When it came to my lake/sections. The top 3 in a 14 peg section where payed out. Not the 2 sections of 7 anglers that i expected and as had been advertised at every stage of the event. Totally gutted and to this day. I still feel ripped off.

Thanks TB, from what you say its the same situation,for most opens fished the anglers are in the dark about payouts.
The only big matches I fish are W/A perhaps 4 times a year, I have been going for 20 years and I still dont understand the payout structure!!
I know its hard when you dont know how many fish and the festival payout by comparison is well documented and understood as everything is worked out ahead as they know how many are fishing.
As a club we have a spread sheet and it has saved us loads of time, not to mention no arguments!

Here’s a suggestion, it might seem a bit radical but sometimes it pays to actually ask what the payouts are, and do it before you part with your pools and peg fee. If you don’t like the answer vote with your feet…simples.

I’ve run matches and the odd league in the past. The accounts of payouts and all monies were clearly visible before and after the event. If your match organiser can’t do that he’s either incompetant or on the dodge.

Most match organisers are fishery staff or fishery owners. They are not generally match anglers who understand match angling, So, they are incompetant, Cutnut.

Not sure many/any match organisers or fishery owners have sticky fingers, Paul. They have easier and safer ways of getting our money. I honestly believe that almost all are paying out all that they need to pay out in pools pay outs, section prizes and bonus peg role-ups. However, most seem to think its there money to do with, as they see fit. Its there fishery or there match. So, they make the rules and decide how many are in the main prize list and how the sections are set up and payed out. Of-course, with a little help from a few local big mouths who can bend the match organiser/fishery owners ear. (Main reason for many crazy rules imho). Those anglers who bend the organisers ear tend to be weaker standard anglers. Suits them to have ever smaller sections and rules that limit the methods and baits allowed. Known fliers in the draw are even better fo them. Gives then a better chance of winning the odd bit of money by tripple default and bigging it up how great they are. If they are lucky in winning a open from the out and out flier. They want there only chance of winning the golden/bonus pot. Its the only way they will ever win anything substancial from angling.

Fishery owners are in the business of making money. So, they have manipulated the old style pools system of paying the top 3, 50%, 30%, 20% and a few large section prizes (10 pegs ish) in your average open match. They now pay out the top 4 or 5 anglers in relatively small open matches plus lots of small sections (4-6 pegs). Added on to this is the golden/bonus peg. The aim beng to spread the pools money around as much as possible. More anglers winning something means that many will return again next week in the hope of getting lucky and winning that golden/bonus peg prize. Once you have put money in to that golden/bonus pot a few times. Many are not going to walk away from it as they have payed in to it and its growing all the time!. Strange calling it a bonus when the anglers are the ones paying in to it. Its only a bonus to the winner and the fishery owner who gains aded peg fee,s with returning anglers.

The big issue for me is the lack of interest from the match organisers on most venue when you ask how much is being payed out to the top anglers in the match or where your section starts and finishes. The general reply is that they have not done it yet.

I,ve fished a few of the W/As festivals, JohnH. Best organised matches i,ve ever fished in. Very simple to understand the structure for each day in those festivals. 180 angers split in to 5 smaller matches of 36 anglers( top 3 get payed out each day and its good money!). 4 sections of 9 anglers in each 36 peg match. Split section on the match lake can be confussing if you have not seen it before. Several different lakes to make up a 36 peg match can also seem a bit unfair at times but your really fishing for festival points if you draw on a weaker pool. Draw on the better pool and your fishing to win the match to get your 9 points. Easier said than done when you do draw well. All winners festival is a little different. Top 2 in each section get payed out in each section. No over all winner of the match each day unlike the main festivals. However, its a sponsored festival and is well payed out in prize money for the main winners at the end of the festival.

as a match organiser i would never run a match at today’s level without a full balance sheet and this would also go along with the bonus peg money .when you are dealing with cash it only takes a rumour or someone to load the gun and you become a fiddler or you’ve taken money out .its bad enough at the draw when you are asked “why have you put this sh~thole in “so bonus peg money must be a nightmare
on a typical match i run and yes we do short sections of £40 but remember these are natural venues where the peg fee is £3 but i would only pay the first 4 individuals passed the 50 peg mark
why the short sections A its a little bonus in a area where you might not get in the main money B with money being so tight at the minute it can cover a little towards travel and bait
this is all drafted on the table as the anglers draw i take nothing out for myself or the lads that help as we need every penny we can get to run the waters we have
i just thought i’d put this in from another angle
but my main point is every competition should have its own balance sheet so the angler knows where his money is going then he has a choice whether to fish the competition or not saves all this back biting behind your back 😉

it does seem wrong that golden pegs can get up to many hundreds of pounds, and are down to mainly luck to win, when pools today have not moved on much and are spread thin on some venues to suit the regulars, for instance i won my first open at 14 in 1989 and won around £240, thats with 25 fishing, recently ive won a match with about the same numbers fishing and picked up £90. I know it shouldent be about the money, and you have to take into account the peg fee as the owners have to make a living and todays difficult financial climate, but as i stated earlier it does seem to be set up at some venues just to suit venue regulars especially the load mouth ones

I can see the argument for small sections on natural venues, Joff. Anglers who are lucky in catching 1 or 2 bonus fish take most of the money. Those bonus fish tend to hold up in small areas. Meaning that lots of anglers are fishing for nothing but a day out unless there are small sections to fish for. I, ve always felt that most natural venues are more peggy than most commercial venues and that the structure for pools payouts needs to be looked at carefully to give more anglers a chance of fishing for something or even the best of us are beaten at the draw! (We use to leave out 3 known flier bream pegs in our Leeds/Liverpool open matches 20 years ago to make the opens more competitive and fair). Helps that peg fee,s are reasonably low on naturals leaving a bit more cash to pay a few extra anglers while keeping the main prize winnings at a reasonable level. Does not help on commercial venues when the pools money is raped by the fishery owners leaving very little left to payout for the match winners let alone the 4 peg section prizes and bonus/golden pegs on many commercial fisheries.

Better idea would be for peg fee,s to be up-front if you want to fish on a commercial fishery. (convinced that lots of anglers think that the peg fee is waved by the fishery if they are fishing in a match)(Also, dont think most anglers are aware when fisheries increae there peg fee,s. £5 peg fee,s 5-7 years ago are often £7+ on many commerial fisheries these days but the pools money has stayed the same). The match pools money should be totally seperate if you want to fish in the match. This would show anglers how much they are paying out for there days sport. The pools money IS the anglers to win and the anglers should know what they are paying for. Having a choice to enter a bonus/golden peg should be additional if you want to enter. Personally, i would never bother with a bonus/golden peg if i was ever given a choice! Its match fishing. If i want to enter a rafle. I will get a lotto ticket!

This is why I like club fishing just read the threads what a bunch of moaning money grabbers you are. If it wasnt for fishery owners providing the lakes and fish stocks, where would you be fishing? Easy solution dont fish commercial opens!