Andy Coulson … Conservative Chief Of Communications o/t

[TF_Dodge]

This story should make an interesting debate on here over the weekend.New named witnesses have come forward along with unamed witnesses from both the UK and the USA over serious phone tapping allegations.

Cameron wont sack him , murdoch is heavily involved so are the metropolitan police, several court cases pending …..

Andy Coulson,s position as the conservative chief of communications is surely untenable ?

Leading to 2 questions ….

1, Is Cameron too scared of Coulson and Murdoch and his News International Media empire ?

2, Is the Conservative Party already in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?

Should be good …….

[TF_Dodge]

Ooops i missed this link out ….

http://www.channel4.com/news/new-phone-hacking-allegations-against-andy-coulson

[TF_feeder]

yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol

[TF_piperpilot]

EVERYONE has their price but some are more expensive then others. Better corrupt then BANKRUPT,

[TF_Dodge]

Oh dear , already one post of currupt has been deleted ….. dearie me ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty

[TF_caster robParticipant]

What’s Coulson done?

Leaked personal details that led to the death of a prominent government expert-scientist that refused to endorse the party propaganda, or something really serious?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/17/dr-david-kelly

“outed and hounded” – I wonder who did that?

How many innocent death’s is Coulson responsible for again, I missed it first time.

“………………..in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?”

You mean they’ve trousered a million from Bernie Ecclestone already?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/940037.stm

unlike Saint Tony and gurning Gordon, taking back-handers six months BEFORE they attained ofice:

Still, it’s all small beer compared to Zanu Labuh’s 13 glorious years, whose minor achievements include:

– 22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
– 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
– The longest national tax code in the world
– 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
– Gun crime up by 57%
– Violent crime up 70%
– The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
– The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
– The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
– The only G7 country with no growth last year
– One in six young people neither earning nor learning
– 5 million people on out-of –work benefits
– Missing the target of halving child poverty
– Ending up with child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
– Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
– Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
– Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
– Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
– Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
– The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
– Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
– Prisoners released without serving their sentences
– Foreign prisoners released and never deported
– 7 million people without an NHS dentist
– Small business taxes going up
– Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
– Tax rises for working people set for after the election
– The 10p tax rate abolished
– And the ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
– Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
– Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
– Profitable post offices closed against their will
– One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
– The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned when it didn’t fit
– Police inspectors in 10,Downing Street
– Dossiers that were dodgy
– Mandelson resigning the first time
– Mandelson resigning the second time
– Mandelson coming back for a third time
– Bad news buried
– Personal details lost
– An election bottled
– A referendum denied

And Coulson’s crime is?

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Dodge wrote:

Oh dear , already one post of currupt has been deleted ….. dearie me ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty

Try learning to spell “corrupt” before you wave your finger.

[TF_piperpilot]

FYI I deleted my post because it’s a pointless thread and not worth the effort, Everyone is corrupt dependent on just how much they are paid. END OF STORY,

[TF_Dodge]

@caster rob wrote:

What’s Coulson done?

Leaked personal details that led to the death of a prominent government expert-scientist that refused to endorse the party propaganda, or something really serious?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/17/dr-david-kelly

“outed and hounded” – I wonder who did that?

How many innocent death’s is Coulson responsible for again, I missed it first time.

“………………..in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?”

You mean they’ve trousered a million from Bernie Ecclestone already?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/940037.stm

unlike Saint Tony and gurning Gordon, taking back-handers six months BEFORE they attained ofice:

Still, it’s all small beer compared to Zanu Labuh’s 13 glorious years, whose minor achievements include:

– 22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
– 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
– The longest national tax code in the world
– 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
– Gun crime up by 57%
– Violent crime up 70%
– The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
– The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
– The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
– The only G7 country with no growth last year
– One in six young people neither earning nor learning
– 5 million people on out-of –work benefits
– Missing the target of halving child poverty
– Ending up with child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
– Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
– Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
– Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
– Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
– Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
– The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
– Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
– Prisoners released without serving their sentences
– Foreign prisoners released and never deported
– 7 million people without an NHS dentist
– Small business taxes going up
– Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
– Tax rises for working people set for after the election
– The 10p tax rate abolished
– And the ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
– Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
– Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
– Profitable post offices closed against their will
– One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
– The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned when it didn’t fit
– Police inspectors in 10,Downing Street
– Dossiers that were dodgy
– Mandelson resigning the first time
– Mandelson resigning the second time
– Mandelson coming back for a third time
– Bad news buried
– Personal details lost
– An election bottled
– A referendum denied

And Coulson’s crime is?

You spelt ofice wrong cr ~naughty ~naughty

Coulson,s crime ….

He will probably bring down this coalition government ……. quality ~clap ~clap

[TF_redarmy]

rodger mandelson gardom lol

[TF_Dodge]

You spelt Rodger wrong Mr O`Dribble , lmao

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@dodge:

“You spelt ofice wrong cr “

Hmmmm.

You obviously cannot distinguish between a typo and a spelling error.

And you support Labour.

Interesting.

[TF_herbie]

HA HA DODGER you seem to have hit a tory nerve there son ~naughty ~naughty you even made the mistake of all mistakes in the ruling classes eyes ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty YOU DID NOT GET YOUR SPELLING RIGHT ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty bad labourite boy that you are. i however am exempt from spelling mistakes as im working class and had to leave school at 15 to serve the tory masters. but im afraid i did not do too well as they outscourced all my work to those nice chinese chappies and left me free to go back to school. they even arranged for that nice man to give me a bicycle to get a job~clap but alas it got lost in the post.~sick so seeing that they had already sold all the country,s industry,s and utilities they decided that they were not too popular so they spawned a plan to make a clone of maggie , change his sex and call him tony blair. that way it would be all labours fault~clap ~clap when the time was right they would ride back in and put things right by lowering only the working classes weekly wage cos they,d got above there station and were lazy scroungers who deserved to suffer. take away there benifits cos it was labours fault they lost there jobs and you cant expect those nice city folks to keep them out of there meagre bonuses can you , i mean be fair. so dodger please behave

[TF_MICK THE BOOKIE]

Brilliant line bite?…..I dont think so…The butt of the feeder rod hit our Robert right under the chin as it sailed away into the murky depths of oblivion.
Robert(caster Rob)…You are the dogs b******s,and without doubt our best Political poster….Keep it up mate.
As for me?….After reading Dodges post and watching the link,i am deffo voting Labour when and only when,i win my next “Fisho Mania” title…..Okay…lol. ~shh ~shh ~shh ~shh ~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_Dodge]

Haha,

Just stumbled over these 2 beauties …. enjoy !

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/10/4/after-tonights-revelations-cameron-aide-andy-coulson-is-toast/

http://www.thefirstpost.co-uk/50353,news-comment,news-politics,themole-david-camerons-tory-spin-c

Toast and marmalade anyone ?

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Really pleased that you enjoyed that so much Dodge.

It’s going to go a long way to help clear up your government’s catastrophic annihalation of the economy and erosion of civil liberties.

Congratulations.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Oh look.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/8068821/Expenses-scandal-three-face-suspension-from-House-of-Lords.html

The usual idle left trait of enriching themselves by way of other people’s money.

How generous of them to donate some of their ill-gotten gains to the Liebour Party.

Whoever would have thought it?

[TF_Dodge]

A big thank you to Hilary Clinton and USA army General Patreus for sorting the Uk,s MOD budget out ! ……. Do as your told by the americans, theres a good toff Mr Cameron ~sick

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Does this mean we’ll be joining them in ANOTHER illegal war, or just settle for the Labuh one?

[TF_Dodge]

You spelt Labour wrong !

Soon be wednesday !

~sick ~sick ~sick

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Apologies, meant to type Liebour.

I hope it’s not a let down on Wednesday, needs to be really thorough.

I was just thinking what decisions were taken by Labuh/Liebour in last years spending review, then I remembered that the economy was such a disaster that Gordon bottled it, again, and was too scared to have one.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3463346/brown-has-the-comprehensive-spending-review-postponed.thtml

Even Darling said before the election that if Labour were still in government they’d have to cut more than Thatcher (clearing up a previous Labour Kami Kaze economic exercise) did.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Newsnight last week was hilarious. Simon Hughes was being interviewed and was absolutely ridiculed by Paxman for arguing that Liberal-Democrats can now openly advocate two opposite stances on any policy;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9091896.stm

I believe the coalition is damaging the Liberal Democrats day by day and Clegg would happily jump parties to the Torys.

Rob are you really involved in the construction industry? Not a good time, far worse than under Labour?

On top of that it is getting worse day by day for every one of us by two parties that could not give a damn about the people of this coubntry. More fool the mugs that voted for them.

[TF_Irk the purists]

Caster Rob,

I’m a coalition supporter but even I can see that Coulson is an inappropriate guy to head up Mr Cameron’s media front….

The guy presided over a team of journo’s hell bent on taking privacy laws to the edge and beyond….

This is indisputable as some have been caught and prosecuted…. and as a result he was forced to resign from his post as Editor of the NoW…..

Would you employ him? He’s either incompetent or culpable….

~think ~think

[TF_caster robParticipant]

NWCA

“Rob are you really involved in the construction industry? Not a good time, far worse than under Labour?”

Yes I am and no it isn’t, yet.

It’s been dire for three years now, which is how long my firm have been shedding staff and we haven’t had a rise in that time.

I recall in the summer of 2008, when we’d all been issued with threat of redundancy notices, driving to a site in the middle of Birmingham.

The council mob were having a day of “action” ie no work, and marching around the Town Hall with their silly banners because they’d ONLY been offered a 3% rise and wanted more.

These people need a good kick up the arse and a reality check.

It’s just Gordon’s chickens coming home to roost.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

ITP

No, I wouldn’t, he seems like poison but that’s how bad Al Campbell defined the role.

It’s a case of who blinks first.

[TF_Irk the purists]

Didn’t Campbell just take things to a higher level after Bernard Ingham and Tim Bell broke new ground for Mrs Thatcher?

~think ~think

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I personally think Campbell was much more extreme than those two.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

You must be lucky Rob, it’s getting worse here in the NW. Construction companies / employees kept going by BSF etc have shed staff / closed.

I presume Labour were to blame for the entire Global Crisis ~think

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Personally, I want to see every politician take a pay cut of 10% or greater not the token gesture by a few Cabinet members. Whilst I have no time for Benefit Fraud were/are our Politicians the biggest serial muggers? AND for the financial institutions that Joe Public propped up to start paying back once they are back in profit.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

No, just the deficit we were running before the global crisis even started.

BSF was totally unsustainable.

I’ve worked on various construction projects, biggest being the M6Toll £750 million, and none of them allowed for 40% administration costs that BSF did.

One of Balls’s I think.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I’ll just add that every month I expect to lose my job due to the current financial climate.

That’ll be tough, but if the only alternative is more borrowing and debt I’ll take it on the chin, rather than saddle future generations with the cost of my selfishness.

[Anonymous]

Rob said – I’ll just add that every month I expect to lose my job due to the current financial climate.

but Rob, there is another way. You and many thousands might even get to keep your jobs, homes and way of life!

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@TrueBlue wrote:

Rob said – I’ll just add that every month I expect to lose my job due to the current financial climate.

but Rob, there is another way. You and many thousands might even get to keep your jobs, homes and way of life!

How?

More borrowing?

[TF_Katarino]

Easy Rob. Tax the rich b**tards! Tax them til they squeal! Just like the 70’s, it worked then, Britain was Paradise. ~think ~think

OH, and cut bankers bonuses. Good move that, mostly non government owned banks are about to pay big bonuses to their staff and the Government will get 50%. No, we don’t want that, better let the banks keep it as profit, and then move it to loss making divisions so the Government will be lucky to see 10%.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

I hope you don’t lose your job Rob. Times are difficult hence why I cannot understand any Government wanting to accelerate potentially exacerbate the pain / suffering felt by ordinary folk when the pace of reducing the debt can be set / controlled by the Government. Nothing is a bigger waste to a nation than people being unemployed.

[TF_Gary]

BSF was ridiculous – the school buildings were higher-spec than some of the most desirable commercial properties in the City!

I think I am only now beginning to understand Cameron’s pledge to “transform people’s relationship with the State”. NWCA sums it up perfectly in asking why the government wants to exacerbate the pain and suffering felt by ordinary people. The whole point is that it shouldn’t be the State’s responsibility to inflict or prevent pain or suffering for anyone, other than the most vulnerable members of society who require our support. And even then, the level of support should be at the minimum level required to facilitate an ‘acceptable’ standard of living (and nothing more).

The coherent theme of the coalition government’s policies to date is that of reducing dependence on the State, whether it is through reducing central funding for Universities, cutting benefits (particularly middle class welfare such as child benefits) or reducing regulation and government interference (eg, recent annoucnements re: health and safety legislation).

One thing that Cameron got absolutely right, in my opinion, was when he famously (and repeatedly) said: “We cannot go on like this”. That was not an option – even Labour were (begrudgingly) admitting that cuts would have to happen.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

So the quality of education for our children / future generations is not important Gary. BSF was at least an important lasting legacy that gave the people of this country something tangible that could make a difference to their future generations. Very different from the squalor that some will now be educated within. Likewise improved hospitals/health care. Such iniatives provide valuable employment / income for vital sectors of the economy. We can go back to the Great Depression and Hoover to see how important that state can be in times of difficulty. We cannot compete with the developing world re wages so we need to be investing in making our nation the most intelligent, high skilled population possible.

I will give you a simple example of the stupidity of this current government. Cut budgets and what happens? Any fool can say we are giving you 5% less PA 10% PA but what happens in reality? The NHS, the managers, the people who control that funding? Do you think they volunteer to make themselves redundant. Instead they look to cut jobs / hours / pay of the people that matter such as the nurses and the quality of service offered to the the patients, ordinary people suffers. That is the reality.

We all have debt, we all repay debt but if somebody suddenly demanded you repay that debt far too quickly beyond your means then what would happen. The same individual lessons apply to us collectively. At the very least the financial institutions all not just those bailed out directly bwecause in essense every institution benefitted indirectly should now be paying a hell of a lot back.

[TF_Gary]

NWCA, the best legacy that we can provide for future generations is a measure of fiscal solvency, that enables them to decide for themselves how to build a society, rather than a mountain of debt built up because we though we knew what was best for them.

BSF would have disproportionately benefitted the few children that were lucky enough to go to these top-spec new schools, with the majority of children still being educated in older premises.

There is also a fundamental point that you have got wrong (I assume through a slip, rather than miscomprehension). The government has got no plans to cut the DEBT. That mountainous pile of borrowing that, depending on how you account for pensions, PFI, bank bail out, etc, ranges from anywhere between c.80% and c.300% of GDP. All they are planning to do is reduce the DEFICIT. That is the rate at which we are building on the mountainous pile of debt that we already have. I do not think that it is unreasonable to try to make sure that we at least return to a point where we are no longer adding to the debt pile over the course of 5 years. Interestingly enough, ‘cuts’ is even a misnomer, given that government spending will still increase in nominal terms over the course of the current parliament.

With regard to the financial institutions, as far as I am aware, the only ones that have not paid back what they owe are B&B and Northern Rock. The equity injected in to RBS and Lloyds is now (at least notionally) worth more than we paid for it. As was pointed out above, bankers bonuses are great news for the Exchequer, as more than 50% of them come the way of the public coffers through tax and NI.

The biggest problem with the banks is that they are allowed to offset past losses against current and future profits. What the government could do is have an amnesty on loss relief against future taxation. This would yield far more than any bonus tax, bank levy, etc, whilst being very difficult to argue against (IMO).

Don’t believe all of the bitter anti-banker diatribe that you hear from Brendan Barber, Derek Simpson, Tony Woodley, Bob Crow, etc. None of them were complaining when the profits the banks were making and hence the tax that they and their employees were paying were funding the biggest growth in public spending in peace time Britain.

[TF_Gary]

Also, if you do not think that we should start cutting soon, after posting the strongest quarter of growth for over a decade in Q2 2010, I would be intrigued to know when you do think it would be appropriate to stop borrowing over £180bn every single year.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Gary you seem to be arguing that debt is somehow a British / Labour phenomenon. We both know that is not true. You and I and all rational objective individuals know that under Labour, periods of financial restraint were practised and national debt at a % of GDP fell significantly to a low of 29% of GDP by 2002.

National Debt as a % of GDP then increased from 30% in 2002 to 37 % in 2007. This was despite the long period of economic expansion. It was primarily due to the governments decision to increase spending on health and education. There had also been a marked rise in social security spending. So in times of prosperity the government invested in our future (education / health). Social security is a mine field and could crate a thread of its own.

Since 2008, National Debt has increased sharply because of Economics Recession which lead to lower tax receipts, higher spending on unemployment benefits and the financial bailout of Northern Rock, RBS and other banks.

For anybody to argue that 2008+ was not a global issue defies belief IMO

Although 64% of GDP is a lot it is worth bearing in mind, that other countries have a much bigger problem. Japan for example have a National debt of 194%, Italy is over 100%. The US national debt is close to 71% of GDP.

Historically, the UK has had much higher National Debt. After WW2 it was over 180% of GDP.

Predictions for beyond 2011 are grave. However, Every party argued we needed to reduce the strain of debt. Yes Labour. Whomever was in power to the best of my knowledge would have started to cut spending, reducing the strain of debt. The pace / the amount etc is the difference.

There is a danger spending cuts could reduce economic growth and therefore hamper attempts to improve tax revenues. Savage austerity measures such as cutting spending and raising taxes can lead to a decrease in economic growth and cause the deficit to remain.

Whomever is in power the next decade and beyond is going to be incredibly tough. A part like the Conservatives that seem to revel in seeing people suffer and pointlessly blame the previous Government scares me.

[TF_Gary]

NWCA, it is hard to disagree with anythhing that you have just written as it is broadly factual. Two elements where I would offer a different interpretation to you, are:

1) In describing the period 2002-2007, you say: “in times of prosperity the government invested in our future”. I would say, in times of prosperity, the government blew the chance to build up a fiscal cushion to accommodate future economic shocks. Imagine if, in 2008, rather than having a structural deficit of c.£40-50bn, we had a structural surplus of £5-10bn. This would have given us far greater capacity to prolong fiscal easing now to cement the recovery. This was the (altogether sound) fundamental principle underpinning Brown’s “Golden Rule”.

2) In describing the future, you say: “…part (sic) like the Conservatives that seem to revel in seeing people suffer and pointlessly blame the previous Government…”. Two points here:

i) I don’t think that anyone revels in seeing people suffer. To cast George Osborne as some kind of fiscal sadist is, in my opinion, unfair. Given the choice, I am absolutely certain that the Tories would rather not implement some of the policies that they have been forced to (eg, the VAT increase).

ii) Blaming the previous incumbent is a pretty standard move for anyone taking on a new role, whether they are in government, a new manager of a football club, or a new CEO of a large company. I do not see it as pointless at all. If you were trying to create the perception that you were good at your job, one of the most effective ways is to juxtapose yourself against the weakest traits of your predecessor. And, to be fair, in this case, the coalition is hardly being unreasonable in blaming Labour for the mess we are in, inter alia, for the reasons detailed in (1) above.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

I agree Gary but we have hindsight and I daresay if any Government had known what would happen 2008+ then they would have been exercising financial restraint.

I do not have any figures and in many respects I guess it is the nature of politics. However, if I was being critical of Labour they seemed to stupidly spend and spend in the last months in some misguided notion they could turn around their impending defeat. I firmly believe any Government eventually gets defeated by people deciding it is time for a change moreso than what the opposition actually does / offers.

I am not convinced most politicians give a damn about their electorate. I was brought up under Thatcher and her philosophy was that society does not exist and she was quite prepared to see people suffer come what may. I sense Cameron et al are quite happy to blame Labour as a ruse to inflict suffering upon a new generation. The reaction of politicians to the expenses scandal exemplifies how selfish politicians are irrespective of their political allegiance.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I think Labour went on a pre-election spending spree because they were certain of their impending defeat.

I referred to it at the time as Gordon’s scorched earth policy, designed to make the task of the suceeding government as difficult as possible.

[TF_Gary]

NWCA, as a student of Thatcherism, I was taught that Thatcher’s “there is no such thing as society” remark was one of the most oft-misinterpreted quotations of all time. The point that Thatcher was trying to make was broadly consistent with what Cameron now ironically calls “The Big Society”; that people should not rely on the State to provide the answer to every problem. It was also remarkably similar to Tony Blair’s rhetoric of no rights without responsibilities.

With regard to “if only they had known what was coming”, I think we all knew what was coming to some extent. The economic cycle is a pretty well documented phenomenon. A recession was bound to come sooner or later. Unless, that is, you convince yourself that you are able to somehow mirculously transcend the economic cycle. Or, to use alternative, perhaps more familiar vernacular, you convince yourself that you have “ended once and for all boom and bust…”

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Gary I do not think the global financial crisis was part of any economic cycle hence I do not think it could have been forseen. Nobody across the globe seemed to anticipate what happened. The only blame to be placed upon governments globally is how well the financial sector was/was not regulated.

[TF_Dodge]

In reality Gordon Brown and Labour didnt have a chance of winning the last election ….. they won 3 elections before that though , awesome achievement. Gordon Brown showed he was human , poor in front of the tv cameras , poor when speaking in parliament and never really a leader of people ….. excellent politician though , something Cameron and Clegg will NEVER be !!! The Tories even with all Murdoch,s and Ashcroft,s influence and propaganda still couldnt even win an overall majority , quite remarkable when they should have won by a landslide …. this coalition is going nowhere, its a sham, the Lib Dems are finished as a political party and the Tories ? they will do what they always do …. SLASH AND BURN ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty

Doom And Gloom Wednesday will soon be with us …… this is what you were all conned into voting for , the Tories do it all the time you know but in different disquises ~sick

Has Cameron sacked Coulson yet ????????

[TF_Gary]

NWCA, I disagree. The credit crunch was in part precipitated by the economic cycle. It is amazing how people have re-written history already! Have a look at his article from early 2007:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6404561.stm

No mention of any ‘credit crunch’ there and housebuilding was already falling off a cliff…

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I didn’t notice you belly-aching about Murdoch’s rags supporting Labour when they enjoyed their awesome achievement of winning those three elections, how strange.

Crafty Gordon did his best to reduce the Conservative majority by swelling his client state with all those benefit recipents and the near million extra on the public-sector payroll. Is that part of his political excellence, knowing that turkeys won’t vote for Christmas?

[TF_bremesParticipant]

Turkey’s cant vote for xmas,they never reach the age of 18,thats my twopenneth on this political debate,im off to watch spooks now~clap.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

I will take a look Gary.

Re The newspapers. Quite interesting to hear the mother in law stating that the quality of journalism has never been so poor in the so called quality broadsheets. She is a Tory.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I wouldn’t disagree with her and I wouldn’t restrict it to the broadsheets either.

Having said that, Marina Hyde is a must-read in the Grauniad.

[TF_Katarino]

what about Polly Rob? She always makes me laugh….

[TF_Katarino]

@NW Cut Angler wrote:

I was brought up under Thatcher and her philosophy was that society does not exist and she was quite prepared to see people suffer come what may. I sense Cameron et al are quite happy to blame Labour as a ruse to inflict suffering upon a new generation. The reaction of politicians to the expenses scandal exemplifies how selfish politicians are irrespective of their political allegiance.

Just for the record, this is what she actually said. Read it and tell me what is so wrong about the ethos behind it?
I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand, “I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!” or “I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!”, “I am homeless, the Government must house me!” and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation and it is, I think, one of the tragedies in which many of the benefits we give, which were meant to reassure people that if they were sick or ill there was a safety net and there was help, that many of the benefits which were meant to help people who were unfortunate—” It is all right. We joined together and we have these insurance schemes to look after it” . That was the objective, but somehow there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to say to people:”All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!” but when people come and say:”But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!” You say:”Look” It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!”

[TF_Gary]

Katarino, completely agree with you. This is what I meant above with my remark about Thatcher being mis-interpreted.

NWCA, CR, totally agree re: broadsheet newspapers. I always used to buy The Times, but have realised that it is garbage. I now buy the Telegraph, but it is only marginally better. I think that the editors need to cut the crap and go back to quality rather than quantity. If I buy a broadsheet on a Saturday, it will last me all weekend and I still won’t even touch at least 70% of the rubbish they bundle in with it. There is an interesting book called ‘Flat Earth News’ that gives some insight into the world of print journalism.

[TF_wightangler]

Interesting ‘dispatches’ on C4 last night, updated and elaborated on composition of coalition cabinet including 20 inherited millionaires and various career hedge fund and investment banking ministerial appointments- including tax investment avoider, the current Transport sec. and Overseas Dev. minister approving further £200 million ‘loan’ to British Virgin Islands ‘govt.’ who recently reneged on pledge to introduce a basic local income tax(there is none-nice for real indigenous residents- as opposed to non-dom ‘residents’ and second home owners- given capita per income-average -even worse than UK).
George Osbourne, is a major beneficiary of his Dad’s Trust fund and therefore avoids direct taxlike his mate, non-dom ‘Lord’ Ashcroft transfer to his missus the day before declaring his promised UK personal tax liabillity,
These ‘gentlemen’ were directly involved in the financial causes of the 2009 credit crunch- Remember that today when George Osbourne announces his ‘we’re all in it together’ cuts…

Re-Andy Coulson- he knew.

[TF_Gary]

I don’t really care how much money they have got. I will judge them on how good a job they do running the country. And if you want to talk about ‘gentlemen’ directly involved in the credit crunch, I suggest you take a look at Gordon Brown. How much money has he got????

[TF_wightangler]

if running the country means running the country and banking sysyem for their own narrow financial interests and non-dom cronies at the expense of the majority of UK residents.
Like the 1980’s then…and the 1987 de-regularization of banking.

Gordon Brown bailed out the banks,
interestingly George W Bush massively increased the US deficit as did both his father and Ronald Reagan.

[TF_Gary]

So is it in their interests to take a pay cut, tax high earners at a 50% marginal rate and increase NI on higher rate tax payers? In addition, what about reducing tax relief on higher rate tax payers pension contributions, taking away their child benefit and clobbering anyone that dares to pay a bonus.

If they are serving narrow interests, it is certainly not the interests of middle to high income earners.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Katarino wrote:

what about Polly Rob? She always makes me laugh….

She was funny at first Roy, but afterwards it was the same joke over and over.

[TF_Katarino]

@caster rob wrote:

@Katarino wrote:

what about Polly Rob? She always makes me laugh….

She was funny at first Roy, but afterwards it was the same joke over and over.

As jokes go I don’t think she’ll ever live this down: “Twice a year Gordon Brown fills his party’s sails with pride. His tornado of facts and figures magics up images of untold national wealth and success. Sixty per cent more personal wealth! Most chancellors sound as if chunks of their speech are penned by officials, not quite convincing in their grasp of macro or micro details. But here is the man who studies everything, consuming documents with the speed of a shredder. Standing at the dispatch box, the towering superiority of his brain makes intellectual pygmies of his opponents”

[TF_lloydy1970]

@NW Cut Angler wrote:

You must be lucky Rob, it’s getting worse here in the NW. Construction companies / employees kept going by BSF etc have shed staff / closed.

I presume Labour were to blame for the entire Global Crisis ~think

Constrution was always going to end on it’s arse after the house prices were allowed to spiral out of control and banks lend people(especially 1st time buyers)more money than they were ever going to be able to re-pay. As soon as the banks drawed there purse strings in and stopped lending so much who could afford to 1st time buy, and 1st time buyers are the main cog in the wheel.

[TF_Dodge]

Headline news now !

[TF_caster robParticipant]

On the subject of news management, another “first” for Labour:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-questioned-by-police-on-day-of-burying-bad-news-428560.html

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Katarino wrote:

@caster rob wrote:

@Katarino wrote:

what about Polly Rob? She always makes me laugh….

She was funny at first Roy, but afterwards it was the same joke over and over.

As jokes go I don’t think she’ll ever live this down: “Twice a year Gordon Brown fills his party’s sails with pride. His tornado of facts and figures magics up images of untold national wealth and success. Sixty per cent more personal wealth! Most chancellors sound as if chunks of their speech are penned by officials, not quite convincing in their grasp of macro or micro details. But here is the man who studies everything, consuming documents with the speed of a shredder. Standing at the dispatch box, the towering superiority of his brain makes intellectual pygmies of his opponents”

This is another rib-tickler from Mad Poll

“The economy is on the up after the shortest of blips: more people in jobs than ever, with the unemployment rise probably only a lag from last year’s dip. Tax receipts are flowing nicely again. People used to laugh when Brown bombastically promised to end boom and bust: it was once the natural British economic weather. Who’s having the last laugh now?” Polly Toynbee, March 2006.

[TF_Dodge]

@Dodge wrote:

This story should make an interesting debate on here over the weekend.New named witnesses have come forward along with unamed witnesses from both the UK and the USA over serious phone tapping allegations.

Cameron wont sack him , murdoch is heavily involved so are the metropolitan police, several court cases pending …..

Andy Coulson,s position as the conservative chief of communications is surely untenable ?

Leading to 2 questions ….

1, Is Cameron too scared of Coulson and Murdoch and his News International Media empire ?

2, Is the Conservative Party already in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?

Should be good …….

The fat lady is about to start singing !

[two shakes]

@Dodge wrote:

@Dodge wrote:

This story should make an interesting debate on here over the weekend.New named witnesses have come forward along with unamed witnesses from both the UK and the USA over serious phone tapping allegations.

Cameron wont sack him , murdoch is heavily involved so are the metropolitan police, several court cases pending …..

Andy Coulson,s position as the conservative chief of communications is surely untenable ?

Leading to 2 questions ….

1, Is Cameron too scared of Coulson and Murdoch and his News International Media empire ?

2, Is the Conservative Party already in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?

Should be good …….

The fat lady is about to start singing !

Dodge,every Conservative government has shown itself to be corrupt,they just move the goal posts to try and fool your average Joe.

[TF_Dodge]

BTTT

Someone is in big poo poo now !

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Dodge wrote:

BTTT

Someone is in big poo poo now !

Gratificationally speaking, how does this compare with dancing on the graves of OAP’s?

[TF_caster robParticipant]

http://www.tourismnortheast.co.uk/site/business-toolkit/latest-news-back-up/2009/2/6/ocean-parks-and-pontins-invest-50m-and-gordon-brown-believes-tourism-industry-will-do-well-this-summer-a745

Only a matter of time until the curse of the Jonah delivered.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/12112010/399/pontins-administration.html

Whoever would have thunk it?

[TF_andy cranes mateParticipant]

@caster rob wrote:

http://www.tourismnortheast.co.uk/site/business-toolkit/latest-news-back-up/2009/2/6/ocean-parks-and-pontins-invest-50m-and-gordon-brown-believes-tourism-industry-will-do-well-this-summer-a745

Only a matter of time until the curse of the Jonah delivered.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/12112010/399/pontins-administration.html

Whoever would have thunk it?

Weak

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Dodge wrote:

@Dodge wrote:

This story should make an interesting debate on here over the weekend.New named witnesses have come forward along with unamed witnesses from both the UK and the USA over serious phone tapping allegations.

Cameron wont sack him , murdoch is heavily involved so are the metropolitan police, several court cases pending …..

Andy Coulson,s position as the conservative chief of communications is surely untenable ?

Leading to 2 questions ….

1, Is Cameron too scared of Coulson and Murdoch and his News International Media empire ?

2, Is the Conservative Party already in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?

Should be good …….

The fat lady is about to start singing !

The fat lady seems to have either lost her voice or forgotten the words:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/10/phone-hacking-andy-coulson-no-charges

A hell of a build-up though, must be one of the longest on record!

The Grauni must have absolutely hated having to run that story as they led the smear campaign from one day to the next. They’ll probably console themselves with another Sarah Palin-fest, they love to give their readers a platform to state how ill-educated, dangerous, and er, American, she is, and they absolutely lap it up in return.

Question remains, what to do with the fat lady?

Do you know a few lines about anyone else, say Denis MacShane for example, that she could serenade us with Dodge?

[TF_Dodge]

No real surprise that through the CPS Coulson will have a little longer serving as Cameron and Murdochs arsewipe , an awful lot of damage has been done and it is very likely he wont be around for much longer. Maybe when Coulsons job becomes available thatcher rob tory boy right wing mouthpiece for Total Fishing Forums will be applying for the job ?

[TF_caster robParticipant]

So if it’s no real surprise to you why the fat lady singing prediction?

About as good as your cricket forecast.

NB You still can’t resist the personal digs can you, all you’ve got to say!

[TF_Dodge]

My post was more of a statement not a dig thatcher rob.

The Cricket ???? …..

I have posted on several forums England will retain the ashes …… you?

If you have a problem with me lets have it out now proper ….. IM WAITING !

[TF_caster robParticipant]

“The Cricket ???? …..

I have posted on several forums England will retain the ashes …… you?”

You posted on one of them, after the first day in Brisbane, that there was no way the match could end in a draw.

The problem I used to have with you was that you never replied to salient points and reverted to personal diatribes.

I’m used to it now.

[TF_Dodge]

@caster rob wrote:

“The Cricket ???? …..

I have posted on several forums England will retain the ashes …… you?”

You posted on one of them, after the first day in Brisbane, that there was no way the match could end in a draw.

The problem I used to have with you was that you never replied to salient points and reverted to personal diatribes.

I’m used to it now.

[TF_Dodge]

@caster rob wrote:

“The Cricket ???? …..

I have posted on several forums England will retain the ashes …… you?”

You posted on one of them, after the first day in Brisbane, that there was no way the match could end in a draw.

The problem I used to have with you was that you never replied to salient points and reverted to personal diatribes.

I’m used to it now.

Oh right that highlights something then ……

Because it wasnt on this site i posted that , it was a friendly small match angling site …..

YOU ARE A STALKER ~naughty ~naughty ~naughty

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Personal AGAIN.

IGNORING the points.

Quelle surprise.

By the way, if you genuinely think that’s the case it could be that the world wide web isn’t really right for you.

The small friendly match angling site to which you refer controls stretches of canal that I used to fish as a boy. That is why I take an interest in how they’re doing, not to try and collide with your musings, those being merely a humorous diversion.
So sorry to burst your self-inflated bubble.

Anyhow, as you repeatedly display your inability to engage in debate there’s no point trying to take this any further.

[TF_Dodge]

Post Moderated By Geepster

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@caster rob wrote:

@Dodge wrote:

@Dodge wrote:

This story should make an interesting debate on here over the weekend.New named witnesses have come forward along with unamed witnesses from both the UK and the USA over serious phone tapping allegations.

Cameron wont sack him , murdoch is heavily involved so are the metropolitan police, several court cases pending …..

Andy Coulson,s position as the conservative chief of communications is surely untenable ?

Leading to 2 questions ….

1, Is Cameron too scared of Coulson and Murdoch and his News International Media empire ?

2, Is the Conservative Party already in its early coalition government fundamentally corrupt ?

Should be good …….

The fat lady is about to start singing !

The fat lady seems to have either lost her voice or forgotten the words:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/10/phone-hacking-andy-coulson-no-charges

A hell of a build-up though, must be one of the longest on record!

The Grauni must have absolutely hated having to run that story as they led the smear campaign from one day to the next. They’ll probably console themselves with another Sarah Palin-fest, they love to give their readers a platform to state how ill-educated, dangerous, and er, American, she is, and they absolutely lap it up in return.

Question remains, what to do with the fat lady?

Do you know a few lines about anyone else, say Denis MacShane for example, that she could serenade us with Dodge?

Excellent!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9651978/MPs-expenses-scandal-Denis-MacShane-resigns.html

“gravest case of wrong-doing ever”

The only mystery is why it’s taken so long.

[TF_herbie]

Very interesting reading rob. Tell me have you highlighted this because he happens to be labour? Down here in darkest Wiltshire , some of us carrot crunchers are of the opinion that all mp,s are self seeking crooks. It’s just some get caught and some do not. However all that dodger ( bless him) predicted came true. Cameron is in bed with the devilmurdoch and must be dreading the forthcoming trial of his buddy,s from the now defunct Tory rag aka N.O.W. r.i.p. however he will do what most if not all tory/labour prime ministers do, he will lie through his back teeth, and hide under the official secrets act or to put it another way “. Not in the national interest”. So only our children will know what really happened when Murdoch planted his spy in no10. But we’ll done dodger for bringing this to our attention long before the media did. Ps dodger what does FO, mean lol

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Possibly the most pathetic excuse to date:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/09/denis-macshane-apologises-constituents-expenses

“even if that grief made me lose judgment on filling in expense forms at the end of an 18-hour day.“

Absolutely desperate, an insult to his own daughter’s memory.

Still, onwards and upwards:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/video/series-57/episode-1/politicians-for-hire-margaret-moran

to the right result:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20309090

MacShame should have claimed to converted his “garage” into a prison wing instead of an office.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Ha!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/investigation-into-exmp-denis-macshanes-expenses-to-be-reopened-8460161.html

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