civil service national venue change for 2013

[TF_Fred Davis]

Origenally to be held at furzton – yes I’d bought the braid 20lb for spodding, 8lb for distance feeder work was lining up a decent distance feeder rod (although I may still buy one) got the spombs and spod rod had been practising tieing the allbright knot sorted my reels out for the job in hand and then they go and change the bl**dy venue it was obviosly too far south for midland anglers so now where all at little John Lakes what a fcuking shambles, can’t wait to find out the reasons behind this debarcle having spent hard erned cash on a venue I may not get round to fish.

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

Fred,
Is the the next annual civil service match to the one that was held at Monks this year ?

I spoke to Paul at Monks and he was unsure where the 2013 match was to be held, as they usually have entry forms available for the following annual match ?

[TF_ums]

Hi Fred how u doin? I heard that the cost of the hotels was to exspensive and they couldnt get a good deal.

[TF_boydieParticipant]

Hi Fred, I was part of the midlands team that fished at larford this year and to be honest I was as surprised as you to hear that next years venue has been changed to Little John lakes.
At this years national there were a hell of a lot of people voicing their concerns about Furzton being a suitable venue to host a national due to its size, fish stocks and points of access and I can only think the angling council has listened to the members which must be a good thing.
I only live 4 miles from Little John Lakes and although I haven’t fished it much I do know its an excellent fishery that produces great weights all year round.
I’m sure it will result in a much better match than Furzton.

[TF_Fred Davis]

Firstly let me say that the match fished at monks isn’t the same match as the team event, on the individual front the venue has yet to be decided, In actual fact there may even be two matches this year as paul likes to keep his friends in the west happy so rumour had it that there may be one match in essex the main event and another event at marsh farm I dare say we will be kept up to date on the issue.No it was the team match that I was referring to, on this match london region fish a qualifier to represent london in the national final this is run around may or june on a venue in the london M25 area and you have to be a member of the CSSC to fish the event,the top six anglers in the event go on to represent the london region, the National final venue was origenally run in every area until the CSSC council decided that every national final match would be run in the midlands a bit unfair on teams a long distance away as practice is virtually impossible, however to cut costs it was deemed necessary to run the match from a central point hence the midlands, this year it was announced that it was to be run at Furzton, I thought great! a chance for us and the southern teams to practice on the venue, so needless to say started sorting out and purchasing the gear needed to fish the venue, I now gather because a few anglers complained we are now back at a venue that none of us can practice on,I can understand the cost of hotels however why didn’t they research this before announcing the venue for the forthcoming year, access on the boundary is fine Ok you may have to walk a bit furthur to your peg than a run of the mill commy but not as far as some walked on the river trent the other year which was deemed very acceptable, as far as the number of anglers being to many! this venue used to host our North Middlesex winter league with 10 teams of 12 etc, Ok we had a section on another lake but we still had more anglers fish furzton in the depths of winter than what will attend on the CSSC national !!!! to say I’m dissapointed and very annoyed is an understatement!!!!!!!

Especially after we were all put on that carsey of a venue the trent where a few dry netted and a pound was a mega weight, whoever chose that venue felt it was perfectly acceptable with the long walks abismal fishing to allow teams that travel all over the country to fish this match where everyone could waste a small fortune in tackle and baits and more importantly time to waste.

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

OK Fred thanks for clearing the individual and team match events up.

I hope the venue is Essex is not Puddledock again as I think it does not fish too well with 60+ anglers, I think Paul was considering Colemans ?

Also on the Monks event this year I was disappointed to see the blatant disregard of the rules at Monks around the 6M rule and netting every fish. From where I was, most corner pegs fished the far bank reeds, clearly over 6M in most cases, and I saw a few anglers just swinging in small fish.

I know its every anglers responsibility to read and know the rules, but these need to be reinforced at the draw. And if you have not fished Monks before, you may not have understood the 6M rule, but whose fault is that ?

During the event I did comment to officials regarding the rules, and was told “its to late now”

[TF_PWOODY]

Fred,

Just a question but dont you need to qualify to make the team first ???????

[TF_Fred Davis]

P woody, indeed we do have to qualify to fish the event and every london regional event I have fished I have been good enough to qualify, I n fact I won the last match at puddleduck, rest assured I put the work in to qualify and represent london

Chalkie white your quite right I also heard that paul was considering colemans but untill it’s confirmed for sure we won’t know, I think colemans would be a superb venue.

On the question of monks yes your quite right I had to tell the angler next to me that he should be netting every fish as swinging wasn’t allowed and some anglers who fished the corner pegs definately used more than 6 metres and one of them was a fellow team mate who won the event, I did say to him yoiu might get some grief or be disqualified he said that he didn’t know about the ruling in fact another angler came up and told him where to fish to catch the barble, the lad who came second was another team mate John watts and I did say to him that I felt sorry as he should have been the winner if the event had been run properly

the truth of the matter is the event was run very poorly, the draw started before the alloted time, there was no briefing before the draw, anglers were not made aware of the fishery rules and regulations even the start time I had to ask if anyone had a whistle to blow so the match could start luckily one lad did, how ever it is no use any of us moaning about the situation unless we want to help run the match, at one stage I was tempted to run the match with mick fordham and we would have if the format had not changed from natural venues to commercials or a mix of both the individual event, In fact I think Micky will eventually take over the running of the event when Paul calls it a day at present this match is not recognised by the civil service national council as if is not run nationwide, it was origenal supposed to move around the country to different areas to give everyone the chance to compeat not just the southern half of the country, hopefully this will be rectified and the event will become open to all when Paul hands over the reigns, however at the moment no one really wants to take it off of Paul who to his credit has run it for our benefit for quite a number of years.I think at the mo we have to accept the match for what it is a friendly low key match.

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

I blew the whistle !!

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

I can remember many years ago fishing the event on a variety of waters , The Severn, The Nene, The Thames for a few events. However if in future it moved from commercials in the south, to natural venues at various locations around the UK, most of the people who have attended the last four years or so would disappear I guess, me included. The main reason being cost of travelling and possible hotel accommodation etc.

The numbers attending are a shadow of the matches in the past, which I think is the same for most large events, a lot of my lot attend ( BT) because we have been on the big matches 20 years ago and it a chance to see old faces.

[TF_PWOODY]

Fair enough mate,
i fished larford this year and came second overall and was part of the winning midlands team.
on our qualifiers each section winner goes through (some good standard anglers) i was just making the point that i definatley wouldnt be practising or buying gear for a venue that ive not yet qualified for.
All the best

[TF_Fred Davis]

I wish we had better quality anglers and a in depth field in the qualifier unfortunately however the recent switch in date over the last few years means that the met police and the army national finals are on the same date as the CSSC national which means good quality anglers like Mark Wells and others don’t even bother to fish the london qualifier any more just that change in date cut the london qualifier field in half, Jim North is aware of the situation and did say he would try to move the date of the CSSC national, It is sad to say that the better london anglers virtually just have to turn up to qualify sad but true, we even have some lads fish who then decline to fish the final and then we do end up going down the list.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But unlike a lot of regions London has always fished a qualifier event going back at least 35 years and before when there must have been at least 50 plus field, unlike regions that hand picked there sides to include mates etc and some by all accounts never even fished a qualifier!!!

Now knowing the sad state London is for decent anglers in the CSSC is why I can hopefully given an even draw look forward to next years national and do a bit of forward planning even if it means purchaseing the equipment needed,

Now having said that it still stands that we had to fish that sh*thole the trent with organisers aware of the long walks the crap fishing, to obviously gain an unfair advantage and pi$$ off 90 per cent of the anglers off. yet a few squeal about furzton and the venue is changed! still lets hope little John Lakes does live up to anglers (including those that have forcefully made the changes) expectations?

[TF_Mick Fordham]

Hello Fred (and all),

I was only talking to Steve Bettis tonight in reference to the final venue (as our new area organiser, wants to try and put our qualifier on a similar type of venue, where possible)… Yes it has moved from Furzton because the Hotels in the area were too expensive for the event…

I too was hoping to firstly qualify (and this won’t be easy from our area next year as our new organiser is getting more and more CSSC members involved, which is obviously very good for the event from a numbers trying to qualify point of view, which I also think is great) as believe it or not I’ve never fished Furzton and love going to new venues….

Fred has made some good points as I also know of an area that did NOT hold a qualifier and there are a lot of people who seem to get through to every final as Fred has said this maybe because of weak area qualifiers (but not that many surely!!).

One of my bug-bears is that they stated you can only qualify from the region either on your card or where you work (or used to work) but they haven’t passed this on to the main CSSC organiser Tom (who gets all the entries), who stated this year to an angler I know, that he can qualify from any area (as long as he only fished one)….

As for the individual event at Monks this year. Yes there were quite a few anglers NOT fishing to the rules of the venue (as Fred said this included the winner) I drew rubbish and because of my back problems had a quick walk about half-way though to straighten up (before someone says it yes I know this breaks the AT model match rules, but would have been happy to be disqualified, as prefer that to not being able to move or drive home) and saw loads breaking the rules, which I also pointed out to Paul. The trouble was (again as Fred said) that the draw just happened there should have been a pre-match talk in ref to the rules and fishing times (as then nobody would have the excuse that they didn’t know and a fair match could have been held) myself and Steve Bettis run loads of big matches and we always have a pre-match talk to the anglers.

However again like others have said, it’s been very good of Paul to organise this event for so long and without him this event would most likely have disappeared years ago.

[TF_Fred Davis]

Thanks Chalkie for blowing the whistle at monks mt8, 😉 In the early days the individual match was open to all and run on a variety of venues a favourite was of course windsor race course however when the organisers retired from the job Paul decided to take on the mantle of running the matches and as MIck has said if he had not then this event would have died out, hopefully I see a great future for this event I think if the event is run at colemans there will be a strong demand for tickets and eventually after Paul retires if the event is run on a national basis tickets will be on a first served basis with possible venues such Lindholme, maver larford, woodland veiw being sell outs because of the number of pegs mega venues can supply including superb facilities for an ageing angling population.

[TF_inky finger]

Furzton Lake Hotel £59 a night in summer on a weekend in a double room. Not that expensive is it ?

[TF_anglingedgeParticipant]

lol fred with that set up, all you need now is a bivvy and you are a specci hunter..

Do you not think it ridiculous that you have to buy all that gear for 1 match???

My guess is this gear isn’t cheap, and it a waste for money for us hard up Civil Servants, as i guess it will never be used again.

I appauld the CSSC for listening to the average angler and putting it back on a normal commy as I’m sure the vast majority of CSSC anglers are

…. Happy days

[TF_Fred Davis]

anglingedge, one could say the same about putting the match on any venue other than a commy even the trent required different gear just a shame about the lack of fish, I actually thought furzton was a great choice a bit different from normal commy’s and a chance for some decent bream bags and a bit of feeder work and long pole, however it’s not to be, furzton was a venue within reach of most southern teams to practice, lets face it the fact that this match is now held every year in the midlands only is extremely biased and other regions now have virtually no say in the choice of venue which is extremely unfair, now don’t get me wrong I love fishing the nationals and it would be great if everyone was on an even playing field with the current set up it’s not the case, however I would rather have the national event than no event.

maybe if each region was allowed to pick a venue within the midlands region then that would make it more pallitable and the feeling that other regions arn’t getting shafted might be minimalised.

[TF_Pablofish]

I’m also disappointed that the final has been moved from Furzton as like has been intimated, it demands a different set of angling skills to the run of the mill commercial puddle. I’m not being dismissive here but commercials aren’t exactly taxing on the old grey matter are they.

I fished this years final at Larford and, as ever, I thought it was very well run and the news of Furzton was well met. I didn’t hear any dissenting voices although I guess there may have been a few.

What I did hear though which was rather more troubling was that one of the proposals being considered was to cut the match from a teams of 6 to a teams of 4 event, purely because of the spiraling cost of accomodation.

Now if the option was either to hold it at Furzton with 4 or elsewhere with 6 then reluctantly, I’d say they made the right decision.

P.S. Does anyone want a 1000yd spool of 6lb Fireline 😮

[TF_Doc]

Fred,

you should have been a policeman rather than a postman;

2013 – Colemans
2012 – River Cam
2011 – Lough Erne
2010 – Monks/Hartleylands
2009 – Barford
2008 – Heronbrook
2007 – Woodlands/Sessay [ at 400 mile round trip it felt like a home match ]
2006 – Gloucester Canal
2005 – River Cam

travelling from Glasgow we got to Lough Erne in half the time than it takes to most of the other venues …..

[TF_Fred Davis]

Doc living on the outer fringe you have obviously been affected by too many highland whisky fumes me a copper your having a laugh 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 :rolleyes:

[TF_chalkieParticipant]

I understand that the London based Civil Service National run by Paul, is to be held at Puddledock Farm, South Ockendon on Friady 6th Sept.

It has been held there in the past with mixed results

[TF_Fred Davis]

Its great news if the civil service individual national run by Paul Kitchener is going to be run at puddleduck on sept 6th this year (2013) lets hope he spreads the pegging this year, as he did when I won the event, the last national match fished on the venue where he decided to stop the pegs at peg 80 proved to be a disaster as the end peg advantage this gave was unreal. the tighter pegging for the rest of us unfortunate sould made the match a grueller, I finished 4th or 5th with a low 27lb, needless to say the winner from peg 80 romped it and it made the match a bit of a farce, in defence of Paul he had been told the pegs in the 90’s had been dredged and was a bit wary of placing anglers on those pegs, however I like puddleduck and seem to do well on the venue so can’t wait, if he spreads the pegging there will be lots of good weights, irrespective of how he pegs it should be a great match.

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

Totally agree Fred, we use Puddledock in BT league matches with 60 anglers, and usually peg blank peg, use the next two pegs then another blank, resulting every angler with a spare peg next to them.

We fished this in June 12 top weight was 88 lb followed by 85/74/74/74/70/70

Top weight came from peg 40 ( not a know area) the angler fed a gallon of maggots

So it can fish well with some pressure, but we use all the venues 100 pegs

[TF_bella6Participant]

Once you have chosen the venue, you have to give advance payment to the owners.

[TF_chalkiewhiteParticipant]

I have just seen an entry form for the Civil Service event run by Paul Kitchen, it is to be held at Puddledock on the 6th Sept total cost of entry and all pools £17.

I

[TF_Fred Davis]

I think your right Chalkie it is nice to meet up with old friends as well as making new friends, I remember years ago in the 70’s fishing the LAA gene cup and plumber shield the match was a biggy with sections of 80+ anglers more importantly I won my section 3years on the trot and although we got an LAA gold medal which was nice the crack was in fishing such a big event in fact we won the plummer shield on one of those occasions if I get time to dig the photograph out I’ll post it on site as the plummer shield is one of the biggest shields I have ever seen, likewise the civil service matches were huge, however in those days nearly all young lads went fishing it was a true working mans sport/pastime however attitudes changed angling got the blame in the lead shot swans debate and I think we got vilified by the some tv coverage then they jumped on the nylon line and harm it does to wild birds and finally fish feel pain campaign, this in my opinion did angling little good, despite modern day scurges like cormorants, the addition of other factors has angling competing with computer games as it is now deemed that kids should be supervised at all times and are safer indoors rather than outdoors,all have added to the decline in our sport

[TF_Jimmy_bronze]

Well my entry form for the London qualifier @ Wood Lane Fishery is now in! Im looking forward to it and if the weather settles then there will be a big 100lb weight required to win. Infact its the perfect venue for me to see Fred put into action all the other things I have read about from him – Browning pellet waggler rods, quality of Ultima line etc! 😉

The Army festival does mean a few of us (including Mark Wells) won’t be able to fish the Civil Service national @ Puddledock on Sept 6, but we will and can fish the team event (if any of us are lucky to qualify).

Anyway look forward to seeing a few of you from this thread soon!

Cheers
JB

[TF_Fred Davis]

JB it will be good to see you at wood lane, don’t expect too much from me as I just don’t fish as much these days, no where near as much as I used to, table tennis is now my main sport, the days when I used to expect a brown envelope on a regular basis are long gone I just don’t put the work in anymore and practice is also none existent, as is preparation I just turn up and fish these days prep is done on the bank, however that doesn’t mean I won’t be giving it 100% on the day 😀
I also won’t be at the civil service individual match at puddleduck due to a family wedding ( my daughter) the day before, I was hoping to sneak out of the hotel but have been warned it isn’t on!!!!!! Doh

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