how predictable (OT)

[TF_Man of Kent]

Englands huge defeat in the test against South Africa was totally deserved. What team in their right mind would go into the last match with a 1 game lead bragging about pushing for a win to beat the opposition by 2 games?

There was no need, and it did the South African team talk for them. The England team showed just how naive and inexperienced they really are and got their just desserts. All they needed to have done was keep their mouths shut and their heads down and play for a draw instead of flashing the bat unneccessarily and the series woud still have been won. Now they have copious amounts of egg on their faces and large portions of humble pie sitting before them. They need to learn from this.

All the talk about England having improved significantly is nothing more than egotistical flannel as far as I can see. They need a really close look at themselves both as individuals and as a team before the Aussies wipe the floor with them.

Shoud Strauss move over? If he isn’t capable of making the right decisions or develop a contingency once things start to go wrong so quickly, I’d say definitely!

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Looks like English cricket is about to implode again.

Strauss has been captain for about a year and now he’s missing a tour because he needs a rest?

Something’s rotten in the state of Denmark.

Broad’s turning into a petulant brat who’s heading for a good slapping some time soon and their South Africans were miles better than ours.

As if things on the pitch weren’t bad enough Giles Clarke managed to make a complete arse of himself (again) and, worryingly, this man is in charge.

[TF_Fordy]

Yeah spot on…

Anyone would think England had just won back The Ashes, and then drawn a series with the team rated number one in the World in their own back yard or something.

Useless. And who does that Andrew Strauss think he is anyway? It’s not llke he’s got a young family or anything. I think they should just let these players burn themselves out by playing every game they possibly can – especially against the big nations like Bangladesh.

Then we can just pick another World class opening batsmen from the queue of class players in County Cricket

And sack that Stuart Broad. He’s FAR too competitive. He’s got an attitude like a bloke who’s in the top 20 test wicket takers in world cricket the past 12 months. We need people like Derek Pringle in the side again

And bring back Ravi Bopara I say. That’ll teach them.

”Always look on the bright side of life…..do do…do do do do do do…..”

[TF_piperpilot]

The team? is made of Cheese and has no backbone whatsoever,

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Fordy, if the players are in danger of burning themselves out don’t you think that the administrators are at fault?

In Strauss’s case, he doesn’t seem to actually play that much cricket and I just think the captain should be with HIS team in the interests of unity and team-spirit.

I hope it doesn’t turn into another Trecothick scenario.

[england awayParticipant]

Future fixtures must have played a part, the pre-match talk for the last test versus SA went along the lines of…….

‘So many of you did well in the Ashes and the tour so far you need to put in a good performance to be assured of a seat on the plane for the next tour……………. to Bangladesh’

Can’t blame them for not trying !

[TF_Fordy]

Not all the players have wives with young babies.

The ICC set the agenda for world cricket, not the ECB – and the power base is in India/Pakistan – not England.

The team has a weak spine – but battles on. They are a proper ‘team’ though – which is why they’ve beaten Australia and South Africa.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

That’s true, the politics have swung to the sub-continent partly because of the massive success of limited-over cricket there.

It was unfortunate that while this was going on Clarke threw his lot in with that Stanford character.

I think the “team” element is very much down to Strauss’s captaincy and will regress if he’s not there and I really don’t think Cook’s ready for it and I can’t think of anybody else.

[TF_MARKHLDAS]

Can’t agree with you Fordy.

He’s Englands bloody captain and should be there. If they are going to tour with a few rookies then they need leadership. Strauss’s Lords contract should not be abused.

England sure dug in during the SA series but were outplayed in 3 of 4 rubbers and won a test because of 1 session.

[TF_Fordy]

Bangladesh shouldn’t be playing test cricket. They aren’t up to it (still). ( I speak as someone who had the captain of Bangladesh staying in my house for 5 months.)

It should be used as an ‘A’ tour. Who knows – it might be the making of Cook. My only disappointment is that it’s not – and players like Adil Rashid aren’t given a ‘lesser’ tour to find his feet.

Hathers, that’s like saying Chelsea fluked the title because they just managed to win the right games.

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

I thought England did alright considering they were playing The Bocks.

[TF_Fordy]

Bloody yaapies get everywhere.

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Boks even.

[Daddy BParticipant]

I do agree with the initial sentiment that England played naive cricket in the 4th test, chasing the game from the first hour when given the amount of cricket forecast to be lost to weather they could have played sensible cricket with a degree of caution. They may still have lost, particularly given the way the review system worked against them in the match, but they could have made the opposition work a lot harder.
On the other hand I would have accepted a 1-1 result before a ball was bowled.
I don’t agree with Cook taking on captaincy responsibility at a time when he is in the middle of remodelling his batting technique and I think Strauss could have gone for the tests only and regained his zest for scoring hundreds out in the middle.
What bothers me the most is why Tredwell is touring instad of Rashid ?

[TF_Fordy]

I would say England are a work in progress and are going in the right direction.

Tredwell is a class player but unproven. Rashid clearly hasn’t worked out but has time on his side. I would have liked to see him go, bat at 7 and bowl 50 overs an innings in the subcontinent.

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

I think England did well to come out of South Africa with a draw. They were outplayed in 3 out of 4 tests, Strauss admitted as much in his interview when the series had finished. I personally think Strauss should be going to Bangladesh, he is short of runs at the moment and as he doesnt play 20-20 and isnt in the one day squad he doesnt need to be out there for over a month. Surely this is a long enough rest for anyone?

[TF_Fordy]

But Strauss nearly lost it once before.

He took time off having failed to score a run for ages, then came back stronger.

His form as dipped, so let him rest. The Aussies do this far better than we do.

Mental strength is everything with batting – technique is only 40%.

If the tour was anywhere other than Bangladesh (or Zimbabwe!!) I’d agree. But what does it prove going out there, scoring three hundreds and leading the team to a series win?

[Merce1]

I was out in SA for Durban and Capetown tests. Whilst far from perfect, I agree with Fordy that the team is ‘work in progress’. Two points:

1)Despite his current form, Strauss is world class as batsmen and captain. The idea of dropping him is laughable, whether or not he goes to Bangladesh

2) The post about England lacking spine is clearly flawed. England showed real backbone to survive with 9 down at both Pretoria and Capetown. Collingwood is the grittiest player in world cricket at the moment – unreported, but at the end of the Capetown test Graeme Smith insisted that all his players shake Collingwood (and Bell’s) hand as a mark of respect for their rearguard fight.

[TF_herbie]

three batsmen failed to produce leaving us having to play six and only four bowlers. thats why we were second best in all tests not just three.to have your opening batsman and nos three and four with an average total of 80 is of no use to anyone. straus, pieterson, trott, hold the key to success. they need a long look at there shortcomings and must learn from the aussies on how to build an innings. put that right and try and get our bowlers to ball a lenth ball now and again and weve got a fair team.

[TF_Man of Kent]

Merce1

i can see where you’re coming from, but i’d still drop Strauss, as he is clearly not a decision maker and cost the series.

The lacking in spine point is also a good one. I agree that the tail order seems to have what’s necessary, but i also agree with Herbie that if the top order had done what is expected of them, England wouldn’t have needed to rely on the tail to provide the batting results. South Africa may have bowled well, but if the top end are as good as they, and some others claim, they should have been able to withstand the onslaught. The SA batsmen were clearly able to do that with our bowlers, so it wasn’t down to the pitch.

I’m afraid the 4th test result was just down to them getting over-excited with the prospect of winning a series on South African soil, and whoever gave them the notion that they should go all out for a final game victory needs a stern reprimand. 1-0 would have been more than sufficient.

[TF_Dodge]

Two factors attributed to England losing the final test ….

The first was that they lost the toss.

The second was that England were on the wrong end of 2 very controversial referal umpiring decisions !!! Graham Smith was clearly caught behind while on 15 then went onto score a century.

An ashes win last summer then a drawn series in South Africa should be applauded , England have become difficult to beat without having too many world class players,Graham Swann , Jimmy Anderson and Paul Collingwood have been outstanding.Not to forget a one day series win in South Africa…. a format of the game we are supposed to be crap at !

[Daddy BParticipant]

Ddoge, they won the toss !!

[TF_Dodge]

@Daddy B wrote:

Ddoge, they won the toss !!

Lol thanks Daddy B , what a crap decision by Strauss that was then ! pmsl

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

To be fair in the last test England were totally outplayed. Yes they had two or three very bad decisions but the truth is they didnt play well enough. 180 in the first innings was never going to be good enough and from that moment on the Test was as good as lost.
Personally i think England were outplayed for 3 out of the 4 tests and did well to get a draw on the basis of that. As has been said Englands batting still leaves a lot to be desired. it didnt help that one of either strauss or cook went cheaply in nearly every innings. This then meant Trott and co were exposed to the new ball, alas they didnt deal with it very well.
All that said i cant wait for the Ashes in Nov as i think we’ll have a real chance, Australia without Warne and co are definitely nothing like the force they were.

[TF_Fordy]

The entire top 4 failed in South Africa. Trott and Cook have a lot to prove.

I thought Pietersen showed flashes of his old self (particularly until he ran himself out!!!). Strauss, Collingwood, Bell all did OK. Yet to be totally convinced by Bell, who has a tendency to ply stupid shots at the wrong time.

I also worry about Prior. He’s supposed to be better than that. Ironic that his ‘keeping has improved – while his batting has deteriorated. Maybe Steve Davies (not the snooker player….) should get a go?

Bowling-wise, I was baffled by the team change for the final Test. Sidearse has lost his zip (as Hoggard did a while back). I reckon they should have stuck with Onions.

It’s a big 12 months coming up – which is why it’s the right choice to rest Strauss (and Anderson) now. We are a batter, a seam bowler and a second, class, spinner short of being top drawer.

[TF_Dodge]

Just to add a little more “Food For Thought” on this subject ….

Scoreing lots and lots of runs is not essential for any test side to become sucessful (although it does help)

Being able to bowl sides out very much is.

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

Fordy i agree about Bell, i know he had an okay series but he doesnt have any sort of consistency. I think Pieterson will come good again, im not sure about Trott at three and think he would be bettter at 5 or 6 as he was against the Ozzies. As you said dropping onions was a strange one as he had been our most consistent bowler as in line length and accuracy over the first three tests and his figures maybe didnt reflect this.

[TF_Fordy]

Onions is one of those bowlers who gets wickets for other people. I think he’s massively important for the future. So is Swann.

The absolute key to winning Test matches is scoring rate – which is why SA only won once in the series.

England tended to scored over 3 runs an over (240-300+ a day). It means you’ve got time to bowl the other side out twice.

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