New Daiwa Air pole.

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

So, has anybody tried it yet??

[TF_Bristol Angling CentreParticipant]

Saw it at the Daiwa trade show, compared it side by side with an airity, not a lot of difference, is it worth the extra £1000 ?????

[TF_tractorboy]

Talking to those that have been using it you don’t notice the difference until you fish with it at 14.5m etc. Stiffer, sharper and lighter. Much more responsive at those lengths.
You need to be fishing and using the pole to see the difference, not waggling it in a show room.

[TF_bagging machineParticipant]

From what i saw on the Maver festival lately there are a lot of very well respected anglers still using the old tournament pro so if they haven’t upgraded to the black or silver airity they cannot be much of an improvement so i cannot see the air taking off either?

[TF_tractorboy]

Daiwa have sold loads of Airitys since they were released and all the first batch of Airs are sold already.

[TF_craigo]

If you need a new pole due to yours being worm out etc then why not.

If you want an upgrade cos you think its gonna make a difference then IMO your being suckered in – theres no difference in top end poles over the last five years apart from different coloured butt sections etc no matter what brand

[TF_Slider]

No difference in top end poles over the last 5 years ???

How many have you used ?

[TF_JohnH]

Its a very subjective argument. All top end poles IMO are very similar. Top anglers sponsored by Daiwa, Garbolino, Maver or whatever would not use inferior products as it would materially reduce their chance of winning any match. The materials they are using are very similar if not identical. No one as far as I know has unique process technology to steal a technical advantage. It amazes me how many anglers are caught by the jargon which is never backed up by facts. Some 16m poles are not even 16m long!! No technical spec has ever accompanied a pole I have bought, detailing the materials used etc, warranties too are not what they seem. If a section breaks and there is no proof of a manufacturing fault the manufacturer assumes you have damaged it, not their warehouse or delivery driver to the retail outlet you bought from. I could go on..
IMO the Air is way over priced and within 12 months I confidently predict it will be around £1000 cheaper than it is now.
Anyone that buys one is getting a great top end pole at an extreem premium price.
Just my opinion of course!

[TF_craigo]

Im on my 2nd now slider – both have been Preston GIS poles.

When out with lads fishing we often have a waggle when somebody gets new kit – the diawa’s and GIS top 4’s are interchangeable so we swap kits around also ensuring they’re tried with same lacyy set up etc. Most recent test (4 of us on bank agreed) was a black airity against an old GIS9 about 6 years old – with a blind fold on you wouldn’t tell the difference except they have different finishes.

Okay – fair enough, there may be minimal change on poles over 5 yrs but essentially, until a new material is found or some sort of new production method is developed i really dont believe theres much difference in em

[TF_thedog]

Think poles of the future will be made out of graphene, lighter and stronger than carbon but made out of carbon….Funny thing science

[TF_tractorboy]

I read posts on here saying the same about the Airity when that was released.
No difference from the pro, to dear and Daiwa won’t sell any. hmmmmmm

😀

[TF_bagging machineParticipant]

No difference from the pro, to dear and Daiwa won’t sell any. hmmmmmm

Exactly my point that would explain why there were so many of the old pros still being used by top anglers.

[TF_tractorboy]

I was being sarcastic BM.

There are hundreds of Airitys on the bank and Daiwa will sell loads of the Airs too.
All the first batch have been pre ordered so thats says it all.
It is a step up from the Airity which is a step up from the pro.
It is expensive but plenty of anglers will buy it and even though the pole isn’t released for a few more weeks yet, shops have anglers who have pre-ordered them. I have pre-orders in the shop I run, and there is a buzz about the pole going around.

Plenty of people will knock it, normally beacuse the can’t afford one or stay loyal to another brand of pole, but there will be quite a few new AIR poles on the bank in the next few months and from what I have been told, its an excellent product that is very stong and very nice to use. nice finish, siffer and with a quicker response on the srtike.
that is the opinion from those I know have used it.

[TF_redarmy]

you mean the tackle tarts andy lol 😀

[TF_JohnH]

Tractor boy, can you define step up? Feels more responsive at 14 and 16 m is not what I mean!
I want to know things like the cloths used? Mechanical test results, like at what force will it break compared to previous poles, stiffness can be measured properly,it feels stiffer means absolutely nothing. Daiwa will have this info, as will all their competitors, but they choose not to tell us.
I am not a knocker I use Daiwa myself and I am sure they will sell, just as I am sure they will be considerably cheaper in 12 months.
Premuim pole at premium price is how I sum it up.
My frustration is, if it is all things things you say, why dont the manaufacturers produce data to proove it? Their silence says to me that it is not alot different. Product differentiation is a major tool marketing people use to try to persuade us their product is better, so where is it?

[TF_Cutnut]

I reckon you will never see the definitive data from any source that relies on the manufacturers for their livelihood as explained by Alex Bones in his editorial this month in MF.

There have been many attempts and promises over the years to quantify the specs of poles from the cheap and cheerful to the high end frequently overpriced poles. No one has ever delivered in full on this. There were attempts using pole rests and sandbuckets to determine downforce and droop at various lengths with match kits and carp kits elasticated and not, but at the end of it all most likes and dislikes are subjective with each person having a personal preference.

For years I used a Conny 510 and then due to a windfall bought an Airity, the difference was noticeable at ‘14.5m’ and ’16m’, I definitely didn’t notice a great difference to the Tourny X or pro except for the finish.

The Air will appeal to those that need the next best thing just as new cars entice some people away from the car they already drive still gets them from A to B but in luxurious expense… 😀

[TF_morris85]

ive had the tournament pro and ive now got the black airity wich does feel better finish wise to the tournament and it does feel slightly lighter and stiffer than the tournament! my mate has the new silver airity and its only the finish thats any diffrent and to me dosent really matter as i ship out across my knee . the air will be a good pole but will it justifiy its price tag only time will tell,imo ill still catch the same with my airirty so unless its mega stiff and light i simply wont part with mine you only have to see how many airitys are on the bank to no how good they are !!

[TF_Slider]

I have handled ( in a fishing situation) The Tournament and Silver Airity and there is a massive difference.

I use a Gmax1000 and previously had a G10 and again a massive difference.

The point we are all missing here is that pole design is not about technology its about price point !!

If I went to any major pole manufacturer and said I will guarantee you an order for 5000 poles and I want them to retail at 10,000 pounds im sure they could create something that would blow your mind, the problem is nobody would buy them so they have to try and create something under 3 grand that is amazing. I think the technology is already there but the market is not !

You cant buy a Rolls Royce with Ford Fiesta money !!

[TF_JohnH]

The only science I have seen applied to top end poles was a feature ran in MF about 5 years ago. Catnut is correct they clamped the butt in balling in hoops and measured the droop at the tip with match and power kits, thus proving which pole was stiffest. Unfortunately the test was flawed as all the poles were not the same length!!
I also recall the losers kicking off big style, I will not say who, but the threat of withdrawing advertising reSulted in the now familiar ” all new gear is great” reviews that we now endure monthly.
All the comments on here so far are subjective, even Daiwa web site contains no information, they say the Airity is made from 100t cloth but dont say all their other poles are not made from the same ” top grade cloth” what does that mean??
As for the RR Ford argument, please understand they will have a full technical spec so you could see the difference without actually touching the product. Imagine Lewis Hamilton taking a new Merc for speed trials, they wouldnt just throw him the keys ask him to do 4 laps and then ask him what his lap times were without measuring them.

[TF_allyParticipant]

As I understand it the Air is over £3,500, Its supposed to be better at long length so you will need a few extensions as well to make it worth while. I dont own a current Daiwa pole so would want to buy some extra tops, maybe a no4 and a no5. This may well take me to nearer the £5k mark than I would like. It would take more than some one saying “It seems better than the one before, and we think its better than the other poles out there” for me to part with that sort of money, I would like facts and figures.

[TF_wightangler]

Good reply cutnut,
think while top end performance has improved – that improvement is more marginal because there must be only so many things you can do with a top grade carbon and 16m design parameters?
Also can’t see cost is issue , Mark – if only as recall that Daiwa ‘Show pole – was it the 510? that retailed for over £8K about fifteen years ago. But accept i might be totally wrong given development cost versus sales in a recession.
Longer sections equaling more rigidity is one recent solution – the daiwa air says it had developed a new resin process which i’m sure is something they’e seriously invested and researched that brings an ‘edge’ by comparison. Strangely, the M1 also apparently has new stiffer butt sections from the no.7
That performance/technological ‘edge’ must surely be getting smaller year on year until a new material can be economically mass produced in relative quantity (the whole market must still be small – say 12 thousand potential market first year optimistically(so about 2-3 thou sales split between main brands?) -maybe up to possibly eventually 25,000 (4-6000?)over a few 4/5 years – about lifespan of flagship pole within a range?
These are just guestimations obviously – may well be lower?.

You could alter shape – say triangular (as F/Blues remarked a while ago)- or make a slimmer/stiffer pole by making all the middle sections from about the no.5 – put-in as opposed to put-over- long add-on pole cones on female butt ends -but the drawbacks – awkwardness comparative to put over, particularly double shipping and anglers general conservatism over what might be deemed inferior joints would limit its marketability – even as in most sports – a few top blokes were prepared to pay for that ‘edge’ for certain situations – but those circumstances would’nt necessarily be commercially viable.
Similarly, we all like to pack most sections inside each(up to 13 or 14.5m sections) – yet that must limit tapers by that factor? Cant see many wanting to carry a load of separate sections in practical terms.

To conclude, all top end poles will still improve but that improvement must be limited by material-cloth, process and 16m design ‘fixed’ parameters. Then you’ve got durability, strength/rigidity over time affects resins,etc.
Think in reality we’re quite lucky not to have the designers problems in finding that ‘edge’- as you could say that apart from the very few top flight anglers then all that extra technology wont compensate one jot for us lesser mortals – which is surely as it should be. 😀

And would guess really -only people who could give an accurate answer would be an enginner/designer working in composites with knowledge of pole design.

[TF_paulD]

My tackle dealer saw the new Air at a show and liked but wasn’t blown away with it. He said that if it didn’t have Daiwa written on it would it would bomb. He reckons the butt sections looked a bit to thin walled for comfort but may be theyre a special material they talk about :rolleyes: .

I was a Diawa nut for years and made the big break a couple of years ago. No big problems but got peed off with just buying the same poles over again with a different paint job. Dabbled with a few poles and ended with a Z9 and now would never go back to Diawa. Leaving daiwa was like splitting with my wife, I was woried about it but when I tried a newer model 😀 I realised what an old shitter id been putting up with for years. Thinking about it, she was also short and sagged a bit —- just like a daiwa pole.

I kept the Pro for a while and used it again after a few months and there was no going back. I don’t care if its carbon, grapheme or plastic, i just want a strong stiff reliable pole that doesn’t stick to my hands, doesn’t come apart or stick and bounces when it comes of the roller. It’s a Z12 or z8 for me next cos I know I’m going to actually get something more modern.

[TF_baggin1Participant]

hahaahahahaahahahahaha quality

[TF_maker]

Does anyone know if the air interchanges with other top end daiwas I have a couple of spectron powers, so if I say bought a 13m air could I use the spectron butt sections, or would you think that would alter the performance of the pole at long lengths.

[TF_Cutnut]

The super expensive Daiwa was the 710 and was at the time hailed as the pinnacle of what could be achieved with the resins and materials available.

Everyone will have a preference or reason to be using the make of pole they do and until there is some standardised way of differentiating the bananas from the viagra rigid, we will continue to make a choice based on peer influence, magazine hype, and actually getting hold of and trying one.

It would certainly help if there were a completely unbiased forum or magazine like Which to carry out tests that would then give you the best or worst buy tables.

To have a completly stiff pole with little give, imho, then relies on the elastic taking the strain. When that bottoms out what have you got left but a prayer and a countdown to something breaking, be it the line, the elastic or worst the pole.

Sometimes what makes a pole appear to be really good is what is at the thick end. 😉

[TF_tractorboy]

It always makes me laugh just how many people call a product on forums like this before they have even seen or held one.
Why knock a product you haven’t seen???’
This is my last post on here.

[TF_bagging machineParticipant]

@tractorboy wrote:

Talking to those that have been using it you don’t notice the difference until you fish with it at 14.5m etc. Stiffer, sharper and lighter. Much more responsive at those lengths.
You need to be fishing and using the pole to see the difference, not waggling it in a show room.

You appear to be promoting a product that reads as though you have not even held so its all word of mouth from others?

[TF_tractorboy]

I’m not promoting it at all’ just offering something other that ‘its bound to be saggy and not worth the money’ type posts.
The guys I have asked about the pole are in the know and I totally trust their views.
Some of the comments posted on here are pathetic and blatant anti Daiwa and from people who haven’t even seen the pole. It’s not even released yet.
I wouldn’t post an anti product comment on a forum if I hadn’t seen or used it, I just wonder why others do.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

the mind boggles ?????
does an air catch more fish than an airity ?
does an airity catch more fish than a tournament ?
does a tournement catch more fish than a matchwinner ?
nope,, yet we still go out and buy em !
people are gunna comment about the managability of poles making em more comfortable to fish with thus making you a more efficient bagging machine,
truth is, there aint that much difference between a matchwinner 811 and an air that your gunna notice a phenominal difference in your catch rates or weights !

the top and bottom of it is,
its the sport we love, we spend alot of time on the bank and we all want the best tackle we can afford,
its a little like a women wanting a new handbag or pair of shoes !
you get bored of what youve got and why not spend your hard earned on the sport you love ?
there is also the “KEEPING UP WITH THE JONES’S” ! syndrome !

ive not read all posts but there really aint that much difference in most of todays top end poles,,
technology has more or less peaked,, its just a case of sticking fancy graphics on newer poles and market it as best you can !

wont say what im using at the moment but i wont even pick an air up cos experience has tought me it aint gunna be no better than the pole im using !

but to those who are buying one !

“YOU’LL LOOK AWSOME” ! 😉 😀

[TF_iansi01354]

Surely the reality is the Daiwa Air will be better than what’s gone before but its likely to be marginal as the limitations of design and materials have come into play over the last few years. The next ‘step’ change I think has to be a change in material or design to make a significant difference.

I’ve been fortunate to have owned top end or close to top end poles from Daiwa, Shimano, Tricast and Garbo and each one has strengths and weaknesses so it will in all cases come down to personal preference of the angler concerned. I’ve struggled to bring myself to purchase Maver, Preston and Browning for a variety of very personal reasons that would have no bearing on others views or purchases.

Like any new product the Air will no doubt attract an initial premium price and then be discounted……if your in the market for a top end pole though it may bring the price of the Airity down a little assuming of course you can cope with not having the latest model in the range and accept its inferior (although only just I suspect!!)

I personally think the biggest steps in pole value at a price are in the c£1k – £1.5k price points with some seriously fantastic products now on the market with increasingly good packages that really do make you question a £2-3k spend unless you regularly fish very long or on very wind affected venues. I spent over £2k and have to say the latest £1-£1.5k poles are very close in performance upto maybe 13m or so.

That said its like anything if you have the cash feel free to make your choice, just don’t tell everyone its the perfect pole for them…..it might not be!

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

Reading this with interest I reckon It will be a mega good pole but very expensive, I own the original Airity which is 5 years old now and still an excellent pole but I sometimes wonder why I didnt buy 2 connys or whiskers instead cos there just as good and I would have had twice the pole package.

[Anonymous]

Silver daiwa airitys are nice poles, as are most flagship poles (except maver) ive had loads of poles in my time and cant really fault any of them garbo’s are my favourite tho’ and thats my preferred choice, i use a g maxxx1000 and it suits me,lovely piece of kit…

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

They probably will have I phones or Blackberries and new cars and big houses that have double glazing they probably like things like that.

[TF_JohnH]

Have all those and more!! I bought the Pro X though not the Airity.
The Air package at 13m is about the same price as the Airity 13m package. The 16m package is £1000 approx more.
Not sure if the Spectron Power 14 and 16m sections will fit the Air but I am certain the X sections will.
If I jump the 13m package is where I am going.
Still very dissapointed with the manufacturers data but suspect it aint going to change, poor treatment of loyal customers IMO but it seems this is the norm for everything these days. Loyalty = Being ripped off, Banks, insurers etc etc are all at it.

[TF_allyParticipant]

If you are going down the phone analogy route then sadly daiwa seem to me to be more Nokia than anything else.

[Anonymous]

i have all those but i dont have a daiwa pole 😮 😮 😮 😮

[TF_maker]

Thanks for the reply john, the spectron power is the same mandrel as the tournament pro, pro x and airity, but I’ve heard the air is a different mandrel from not sure if its the 6th or 7th upwards, its just what I have heard, if the spectron power butts fit the 13m air its worth me getting it, but if not its a 16m airity me thinks.

[TF_JohnH]

Maker, I was just about to buy the 13m Airity and use my Pro x 14 and 16m sections to take it out to 16m, I was advised it was the same. I have not asked the same question of the air. I will be very surprised if they dont fit as every top end Daiwa pole for years has been off the same mandrel.
Just a caution, the 13m package is not the slim version DA-SS130 AU, ITS THE DAP130, there are 2 13m packages available.
I will probably wait until Spring now as my winter trips will be in frequent.

[TF_drawbag1967]

Why the downer on Daiwa, there products knock spots off some of the s**t out.

[Anonymous]

I think one important factor that most are missing here is residual values. Regardless of price on a top end Daiwa Pole, Airity, Air, whatever is second hand value, nothing holds it prices better than a Daiwa. You still see T/Pro’s on ebay 3/4/5 years old and still sell for a grand, you can’t say the same about other brands…..FACT !

Yes I own an Airity and yes I have an iphone and an ipad as well………baaaaaaaaa

No wonder the majority of top flight anglers never post on forum’s anymore, everyone’s so quick to slag everything off.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

@CunningStunt wrote:

I think one important factor that most are missing here is residual values. Regardless of price on a top end Daiwa Pole, Airity, Air, whatever is second hand value, nothing holds it prices better than a Daiwa. You still see T/Pro’s on ebay 3/4/5 years old and still sell for a grand, you can’t say the same about other brands…..FACT !

Yes I own an Airity and yes I have an iphone and an ipad as well………baaaaaaaaa

No wonder the majority of top flight anglers never post on forum’s anymore, everyone’s so quick to slag everything off.

this is very true !

[TF_maker]

Yes john they all interchange except the air, so I’ve heard.

[TF_drawbag1967]

@CunningStunt wrote:

I think one important factor that most are missing here is residual values. Regardless of price on a top end Daiwa Pole, Airity, Air, whatever is second hand value, nothing holds it prices better than a Daiwa. You still see T/Pro’s on ebay 3/4/5 years old and still sell for a grand, you can’t say the same about other brands…..FACT !

Yes I own an Airity and yes I have an iphone and an ipad as well………baaaaaaaaa

No wonder the majority of top flight anglers never post on forum’s anymore, everyone’s so quick to slag everything off.

Totally agree mate quality is quality, some of the old Feeder and Waggler Rods that are over 20 years old still fetch £70 plus on ebay.

[TF_JohnH]

I will check it out too Maker and if its different the Airity is where I am going.
As for top anglers not posting on here, I think they still look and will post if the quality of the post is high, they will not get dragged into pointless slagging matches, nor should they.
I find some of the stuff on here very usefull and generally learn something every week.

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

John, the Air interchanges with the Airity. I have a pole only air package and all my silver airity spares fit.

[TF_JohnH]

Thanks Steve, I would have been surprised had it not been the same.

[TF_Waveney One]

I am pretty sure that Simon Wheeler (Diawa Rep) told me that the Air came off a different mandrel to the others. All the top kits, 4 and fives will inter change but not the bigger sections.

[TF_Waveney One]

By the way, isn’t it about time the internal clock was changed on this site. it is 12.10 not 13.10 🙂

[TF_JohnH]

Steve can you check this out please? Do the 14 and 16m Airtiy sections fit your Air?
If not at what point do the sections interchange?

[TF_NickC]

Thought i might as well add my opinion to this!
As with most very top end equipment, especially sports equipment, they only make a real difference to those people at the pinacle of their sport, i.e. the best use the best and see the benefit. For me, a budding amateur, i’d have one if i could afford it, but probably the truth is it would not benefit me as much as a top end profeesional matchman.
It’s similar to drawing a flyer peg, a top matchman (or woman) would make the most of it, for me i make the most i can but this wouldn’t be close to what they could get from it!

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

@NickC wrote:

Thought i might as well add my opinion to this!
As with most very top end equipment, especially sports equipment, they only make a real difference to those people at the pinacle of their sport, i.e. the best use the best and see the benefit. For me, a budding amateur, i’d have one if i could afford it, but probably the truth is it would not benefit me as much as a top end profeesional matchman.
It’s similar to drawing a flyer peg, a top matchman (or woman) would make the most of it, for me i make the most i can but this wouldn’t be close to what they could get from it!

Professional match anglers do benefit from products like this, but whats wrong with Joe average owning a top end pole, after all its a pleasure to use a decent pole and its only like owning a sports car ?I know plenty of people who own sports cars and there not Nigel Mansel !

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

John, the Airity will interchange as in fit all the way down. The sections though are different in construction as in a tighter weave so it would look slightly odd slotting airity sections in to the air pole but it could be done.

[TF_bagging machineParticipant]

Have Daiwa managed to engineer the pole so the sections no longer work loose, surely thats the most important question?

[TF_JohnH]

Once again thanks Steve, I always carry a back up pole with me, I try to take a back up that will interchange section by section.
Looks like the Air 13m package or 16m pole only for me.

[TF_maker]

Any price on a 16m air, pole only.

[TF_JohnH]

I have not seen a 16m pole only listed anywhere so it may not be available yet.

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Nice little vid here:

Free Video Clip – Will Raison Reveals The Daiwa Air Pole

[Author]

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