pseudo ‘conservation’ group claim carp are ‘invasive’ and get speciman carp needlessly destroyed.

[TF_wightangler]

Some so called ‘wildlife conservation experts’ named jon millikin, ray harrington-vail and ‘do-gooder’ of the so called ‘Footprint Trust,Newport Rivers Group, Island 2000, Wight Wildlife and a company called ‘ British Flora’, lobbied, got funds and enough backing from some council approved ‘conservation’ groups including one of major polluters-the foreign owned SWA to donate backing and funds to get a good number of local iow strain carp that were over 20 years old and some over 30lbs removed and destroyed from the Eight bells /Carisbrooke Pond, man made and dating back to roman times-which used to form part of a larger medieval mill [pond where carp resided because they ‘coloured the water, were ‘invasive’ , took the insect and flora away from bats despite evidence to the contrary including from the local bat hospital.
The EA fisheries dept. were cornered into a position by the coucil and these groups so that the carp had to be destroyed because of recent strictures over transfers of carp due to khv and other diseases.
i should also point out The able and civic minded local councillors concerned genuinely wanted to improve the look and access and appearance of the lake for their local residents but were presented with a psuedo scientific ‘plan’ and fait accompli with funding by these so called conservationists they do not profess to knowing much about angling or pertinantly common carp but are supportive of anglers and the benefits of conservation angling and alerted me to ascertain where the carp had gone. The local iow strain of carp is muscular, lean and with a longer than average tail ‘wrist’ akin in appearance toold english ‘wild strains’.
These pretensious ‘accredited’ ‘conservationists and eco-concerned would be aspring ‘wetland habitat’ creaters(sans carp!) that allowed these local and lovely fish to be destroyed because they could’nt see into the pond clearly, wanted to see brown trout -even though these ponds are distict in fauna and make-up from the Lukely brook nearby.The so called eco’expert’ Jon Millikin wrote ‘there is a population of large carp in the pond.These fish are also very destructive-they continually stir up the silt from the bed,eat everything and jeopardise our planting schemes.’
They claimed the carp were unhealthy -despite the water being very rich in food and very shallow with spectacuarlar growth rates for the carp and also a large bat population which feeds on mosquitoes and a selection of invertabrae many distinct from the diet of the carp.
as a result, feeding the ducks by kids and families was dscouraged and the place due to recent vandalism is now barred to the public and a locked off.
This underlines why angling must get accredition with local authorities, river boards and trusts and meet your regional ea and local officers and stave off the petty bourgeis attentions of these new fund public grabbing psuedo ‘conservation eco-groups’.
Scum like these and Jan Harrigan and other selfish and ignorant arseholes will crop up again and again until we as anglers wake up!!!

[Anonymous]

i’m lost for words …..

[TF_wightangler]

i have to say i find fish and carp much better company and worth fighting for than these ‘liberal do gooder’ types! an analogy with common carp and coarse fishing seems somewhat apt in these times with society in general…

[TF_dirkdiggler]

and to think we’ve gone from winning two world wars to this in 60 years,
makes me want to weep.

[TF_wightangler]

ps -sorry about some of the spelling , i’m still slightly ‘annoyed’….

[TF_Hillbilly]

Guess they will be campaigning to shoot all the fookin birds next because they eat bat food as well. Absolutely criminal behaviour but they would surely not have been allowed to get away with it in the first place if angling representitives were informed of their intentions.

[TF_wightangler]

exactly- indeed re-the bats -there is a carp farm pond near where my mother lives where there is an abundance of bats ; see the following info;kindly provided by a able very hard working voluntarlily on behalf of local angling and unsung senior gentleman;
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/iowbathospital/bats.htm

The EA fisheries dept. and experts are also not given much choice once these groups get lobbying, although i feel that nationally amongst govt. ignorance of angling and its conservation benefits are overlooked or deemed low on the scale of priorities- we have the supporters but we must make the neceesaary moves to empower angling and inherently fish welfare-this mirrors bbc wildlife programmes where invertabrae and flora are given much greater prominence on wildlife programmes and in the media generally- most of it unfortunetely either london orientated and ‘so called’ trendy or faddish in their reportage and outlook- when did you last see angling or coarse fish in a sunday supplement article? or even featured in most local newsroundups.

[GetridofcarpParticipant]

Its about time someone stood up to the misinformed egotistical self righteous carp anglers that choose to illegally and inappropriately place populations of invasive ugly destructive Carpio Carpio and all its derivations including Ghost and Koi carp in lakes and pond in the UK… for too long the E.A. Fisheries have sat on the fence due to their salaries being paid by the rod licence fees.
For too long I have endured the unwanted capture of this aquatic pig to the detriment of my wish to enjoy the sport of fishing for indigenous species of our native land. Maybe you remember them…Tench, Roach, Rudd ,Perch etc
Mr Milliken has started a process that I trust is mirrored by fisheries throughout the country side.
Thank God for a new generation of ecologists who stand up to misinformed lets go pig fishing individuals.
I know the pond in question.. The original stock although prime in condition were illegally introduced as no section thirty consents have ever been granted nor sought. The ` IOW `strain you mention is a load of bull! The fish were of a farmed variety. So why should they be there? As in so many fisheries throughout the UK they totally dominated the ecology. This scenario would have endured for many years as some carps live to over one hundred years save being effected by one of the fatal diseases the importation of said carp has brought into the UK ( SVC ,KHV).
These two pathogens have destroyed the ornamental trade, killed tens of thousands of carp and threaten the wild stocks of fish including the many populations of carp (carpio carpio) in fisheries across the UK. Which you seem to care so fondly and passionately for, How many carp have died slowly and presumably painfully from these illnesses … as opposed to the small number rightly humanely destroyed at Carrisbrooke.
If you must fish for these invasive ugly and incredibly destructive species keep them in your own fisheries. Let the E.A. licence those fisheries and let people who want to fish for non carp species do it in the knowledge that carp are correctly being controlled rather than let over zealous carp anglers slightly touched by their own self importance have it all there own way!
I have little fondness for our Australian cousins but that ..`not to kill a carp` is an offence brings pleasure to my ears!
MJ

[Anonymous]

i would hang on to your rod if i was you….its just about to fly off the rest….lol

[TF_FBlues]

cyprinius carpio actually. If you are in the habit of pontificating I always find it an advantage to start off with the facts. It is also extremely doubtful that some if not all of the other species you mention, with the possible exception of perch, are native. Once the white fish, from the glacial lakes, are established as ‘native’ it is possible that perch, pike and trout were here too. The jury is out on the rest I’m afraid. But then, if you go back long enough, there were no clever bastards here either. (RIP Ian Dury).

[GetridofcarpParticipant]

Rest..? Ah so typical ! Ever thought of using a float? …..Boily boys should suffer the same fate as chavs! Easier to action too as the`re usually stuck in their recliners or bivi`s!

[GetridofcarpParticipant]

Apols on the genus! quite right.

[GetridofcarpParticipant]

carp were introduced for farming by the boys in cassocks.Don`t think roach and Rudd were!

[TF_irishangler in oz]

~think

flaming nora….!

I ‘ve spent the last 9 yrs living abroad in both the US and now Australia and listening to people telling me every time I fish

“Oh dont put that carp back, they destroy the place,
they kill the native fish, blah ,blah”
and yet ask one local what a native fish is ?

…~shh ..they dont even fish themselves !

Now after both the missue and myself have decided to move to the UK late next year to at last settle somewhere and I maybe even get to fish some matches on a regular bases again am going to be listening to the same crap ..!
LOL…~clap ~clap ~clap
its following me like a curse

[GetridofcarpParticipant]

with the greatest respect carp are definatly the crap and are the curse, I can give you a definative scenario where carp intro`s have demolished a good bio-diversity of fish. Take your blinkers off. Your patronage of the country that seemingly denies global warming has rubbed off on you…

[TF_irishangler in oz]

~clap ~clap ~clap

~think …Seems to me global warming has definatly had some affects on some parts or people in some countries….

[TF_ubat]

I believe that our only indigenous species is the Tench, apparently the little tinca survived the last ice age, presumably through its tolerance to low oxygen waters.

Not all carp are the same, the older types grow slower, are thinner and do not grow to large sizes.
We had some old strains of carp in the grounds of a stately home my local club can fish, these were the descendents to stock from a few hundred years, sadly, I have not heard of any of these being caught in the last few years.

[TF_FBlues]

Vendace, schelly, gwyniad, powan, pollan. All native species. If roach are native, why are they not in Ireland naturally? No one I know denies global warming but many, the intelligent and not-so-easily-led amongst us, don’t believe it is entirely the fault of homo sapiens and that whatever we do won’t make the slightest difference. Maybe Jackson Browne had it right in ‘Before the Deluge’.

Please don’t hide the details of the place where carp have destroyed biodiversity: I’m sure we’d all like to know but first can we have your assistance to destroy cormorants, zander, mink, floating pennywort, signal crayfish, mitten crabs and a myriad other things that are far more damaging to biodiversity than carp and also don’t have the same positive effect on the economy as C Carpio.

By the way: do you mean ‘definitive’ or ‘definite’? Just a small point but a definite difference between meanings as that definitive comment proves.

There is no definitive proof of who introduced carp to the UK: it may have been catholic monks but if that is the case why didn’t they take them to Ireland too? More informed research indicates they could have been Roman in origin meaning they would have residence in England for longer than many species now considered indigenous.

[TF_steve r]

@wightangler wrote:

This underlines why angling must get accredition with local authorities, river boards and trusts and meet your regional ea and local officers and stave off the petty bourgeis attentions of these new fund public grabbing psuedo ‘conservation eco-groups’.
Scum like these and Jan Harrigan and other selfish and ignorant arseholes will crop up again and again until we as anglers wake up!!!

It’s very disappointing to hear stories like this but I’m afraid you summed it all up in your last sentence. As what I would consider to be the main angling influence on the island who, in the past, have tapped into that public funding to build a fishery [Merstone] and, more recently, raised enough of a furore to overturn and angling ban on the river whatever it’s called [Is it the Yar?] then how comes the club didn’t use the contacts made with the EA and other bodies that helped in the past to do something about this latest debacle, or is it a case that because it wasn’t one of their own fisheries that they don’t actually care what happens?

This may sound like rather a cruel response but, at the end of the day, it’s only the locals that will hear of these sort of campaigns before it’s too late to do something about it and, in this case, it’s obvious that heads were buried in the sand rather than react to the situation!

[TF_wightangler]

please note, to be fair,
this is the original unedited letter IW County Press 28/07/2008 (kindly supplied to me by Mr.Ray Harrington Vail), from which some of us learnt in the edited version that appeared in the C/PRESS of the carps’ removal and demise;
Letters Page IWCP

28 July 2008

Carping on about Carisbrooke’s ponds

Sir

There is nothing stopping fans of common carp and goldfish having them in their own private ponds or indeed angling lakes. (Le Mazurier Letters 25 July 2008 IWCP.) I personally own a whole host of non-native and exotic plants and fish, including piranhas. However, the place for these species in the UK is not in the wild. Non-native invasive animals and plants that are damaging habitats and directly harming our native wildlife.

Many of our heritage ponds have been overwhelmed by parrots feather, an aquatic plant from a far off land. It takes seconds to put in and decades of control. Left unchecked native plants disappear and insect life reduced. However, the damage done by this plant is nothing compared to that done by common carp and goldfish. There is overwhelming research and evidence of the damage done by carp to waterbodies. The Environment Agency, English Nature, the Game Conservancy and many universities have studied the issue.

Once carp are introduced the species soon change the clear water of a pond into a dirty and algal rich ‘peasoup.’ The insect live, such as zooplankton, which keep the water clean are soon devoured. The carp also eats plants, which take up nutrients. The nutrients the fish produce soon turns the pond green. Other insect life, such as dragonfly larvae die in the pollution or are eaten. Then the wider food chain is affected.

In the case of the Carisbrooke Mill Pond the feeding bat population had been dramatically reduced due to the few insects hatching out of the pond. The water quality was poor and marginal and aquatic plants virtually non-existent. The smaller Priory Pond had lost most of its insect life and the water was very turbid. Left unchecked the water quality would have continued to fall and it could have become a health hazard. Thanks to the removal of the carp and goldfish from both of these water bodies their quality has been improved for wildlife. The dragonflies, many of which are endangered, do return once carp numbers are reduced.

To answer some of the observations made by your correspondent. Natterjack toads live on heathlands and sand dunes and visit small temporary ponds – thus were not the aim of these conservation measures. They exist in Hampshire and Dorset but not on the Isle of Wight. Great Crested newt numbers are increasing where habitats have been improved elsewhere– thanks to the efforts of Kitbridge Enterprise Trust and other bodies. Again the efforts at these two ponds were not directed at that species as these ponds are outside of their current range. Stinging nettles are very good for butterflies etc and in turn that is good for the birds and bats that feed on them. The tadpoles will return once their main predator – fish – are reduced in number. Many of the carp removed were in a poor state of health due to overcrowding and a poor diet of bread and other inappropriate food. It would be irresponsible to place diseased fish into another pond. Electro-fishing stuns fish and does not kill them in most cases. Children are very aware of environmental issues and the need to conserve our native wildlife. We run pond-dipping activities for children -which prove very popular in ponds that are full of a range of wildlife. Not all young people are sat in front of computers all day.

These historic ponds must be conserved for future generations and we are pleased that various bodies have worked together to achieve this. I am personally delighted that after years of highlighting the poor state of all Carisbrooke’s ponds that they are now being managed in the correct manner. Everyone can do their bit to keep them in a good state of health. This can be achieved by not dumping unwanted fish and plants in them

[Author]

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