You have to do the legwork

[TF_paulnewell]

When I was around 18 yrs old I was desperate to prove I could beat the best in match fishing . Roy Hall a totally unsung float fishing giant had a knock on his door . We became great friends and I was a sponge , soaking up Roy’s knowledge . He insisted I go and watch other top men as much as I could . Usually on Wednesdays I would go to Hampton Ferry on my lambretta and watch some of the best ever . Men like Clive Smith , Alan Higgs , Max WInters , Tony Davis , Mark Downes and many more . They were not always pleased to see me but if you sat low down and kept quiet you were in for a treat and would learn more than fishing by yourself . Which leads me to ask this question . Are some people on this forum so lazy to think that the laptop is the answer to improving their angling skills ? Judging by recent comments I think expectations are too high . You may get a small insight but nothing to getting off your backsides and doing some legwork. 😉

[TF_Paddy]

What a load of judgemental claptrap!

[TF_Kagger TNB]

It might be a bit provocative, but it’s certainly not claptrap.

[TF_paulnewell]

A lot like the advise your old dad gave you when you was a kid . You may not want to hear it but came from years of experience . Walking the bank is a great way to learn . Tongue in cheek I have called it practising on the cheap ! I do not think anyone can expect great paragraphs of angling techniques from these forums . Short explanations yes but if you take time away from your own fishing and watch some 1st hand talent you will reap the rewards . Another option is to pay to have a day with a Superstar !! No way provocative or out else and it’s free. 😀 😀 😀

[TF_CriagH66]

Unfortunately not all of us have the time to to work on our game in this way. However I whole heatedly agree with the philosophy behind the post. The internet is a great source for ideas but actually watching the master in practice or better still getting out there and perfecting the art for yourself cannot be beaten. Fishing for me has always been and still is a case of live and learn, mainly self taught from experience.

[TF_paulnewell]

Criag regarding time . Over the years I think of the effort I put into matchfishing and not in my working life I probably should be rich ! A great angler Tony Eaves packed in matchfishing to do very well for himself . Rather than fish it pays to give up a day and walk and watch . Have a pint with the lads afterwards . The info flows better when lubricated !! 🙂

[TF_april9092Participant]

I have sat behind a lot of anglers and you do learn a lot, like paul says keeping low and not making a nuisance of yourself you do learn a lot and while the angler is packing up you find they will answer any questions for you. IT IS NOT CLAPTRAP,the forums have so much shite on them we are starting to believe what is written rather than going to look for are selves.

[TF_TIDALWAVE1]

The internet fishing forums have been,and can be a great source of information,advice etc.if you understand that you still may have to read between the lines sometimes,as anyone can become an instant expert without actually leaving the house.so as long as you know the genuine anglers,wether match,pleasure,or club,there is no problems.but there is also no substitute for on the bank experience and practice,as well as watching and learning.the same applies to coaching days.

[TF_stonecold]

I remember sitting with yourself Paul at common road, Evesham one evening. You taught me hell of a lot in couple of hours which still runs tru today

You learn a great deal by watching and if your lucky talking to the angler in question

[TF_paulnewell]

Many thanks for your thought out views and great to hear the common rd story .Not everyone has always found me easily approachable but same as the odd reader on here I also have an off day !!! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[Anonymous]

You can do all the leg walking and watching other as much as you like but if you dont have the tallented. Then, you will never be a very good angler. Its the same with reading and discussing angling on forums or with reading about angling in the mags. You might think you have learnt something but until you can turn that attempted learning experience in to extra/more/bigger fish in the net. I would suggest that its just entertainment. There are very few anglers who can watch someone else and read between the lines about what is going on. Very few anglers who can then use that learning experience weeks or even years later to put extra/more/bigger fish in the net.

A good example of this sitution is yourself, Paul. Very few anglers could master your bread method. However, everybody knew it worked and many had seen it in action. Im sure a few tryed to sort it out and follow. Funny to think that most of those anglers consider themselves to be very good match anglers that you where fishing against.

[TF_paulnewell]

What you say is probably the harsh truth . if you were a school teacher you would need to believe that all those pupils could end up brilliant . That would give you the buzz .My old gran worked from home whipping rings on rods and mounting flies on display cards . At the age of 13 I was hooked . Reading books like Mr Crabtree and I had a book written by Albert Rodway . At that age seemed magical . Later Ivan Marks book on float fishing was fantastic . Aged 14 I saw a man fish our canal with hempseed . He would catch three rings up the net of roach !! One morning I got on his favourite swim before he finished the night shift ! When he arrived he was fuming ! He stuck his boot in my wicker basket and I went in the cut ! Nasty old bugger but a great thinker .During the next few weeks the roach fishing on hempseed died a death and I couldn’t think why . With extreme caution I crept up behind Old Ted and twigged it . Crafty beggar had got the roach switched onto cheese . He would pre bait with cheap grated cooking cheese and fish very soft small balls on the hook !! The roach he caught on cheese were bigger ! So were mine 😉

[TF_redarmy]

legwork for the top anglers is very important,if you look at the talented younger anglers at the top of there game,they already had the raw talent and if you dig around you will find that nowadays most of them have been taken under the wing of top anglers and ended up as travelling partners and even team mates.fishing is and always has been an information game,you need contacts and advice to do your homework on venues you never or rarely fish otherwise you are throwing your money at the local experts.

[Anonymous]

Im not sure the top match anglers do much in the way of leg work. A bit of basic info is the most that they need to get a feel for a venue and how to approach it. The rest comes down to gut feeling, water craft and fishing to their stregths. Very few of the top anglers follow the crowd if they are attempting to beat the venue experts on a new venue.

Learning the basics and becoming smooth in those basic skills in angling can be learnt or taught. You can be taught/learn enough to even be competitive at open match level and win off a flier. However, there is much more to becoming a top match angler than being very good at the basic skills. The difference between being a competent match angler or being a very good/top match angler has more to do with being able to think outside the box. Having the ability to read sitations and adapt. Thats down to natural talent. The few that can do this almost without thinking are the anglers at the top of our game.

Many of the top match anglers might do the rounds of phone calls about a new venue. Not sure if its to get more than basic info and to be social or be part of the in crowd.

[TF_paulnewell]

When I visit Whiteacres every winter on the silverfish festival there are a few of us , nose to the grindstone Saturday and Sunday practicing our tits off and late afternoon both days the lazy practice on the cheap rascals arrive . There is no mystery they are indeed doing the leg work and it costs them nothing . I love them all , But I let them know my feelings . Newelly would wouldn’t he ? Maybe I should do my practicing on the cheap , Success so far is very illusive ! 😮 😮 😮

[TF_footplate]

If you don’t want watch and learn you can always become a smiling croc!

[TF_paulnewell]

Strange input ???

[TF_Paddy]

Good pull round!
I was a bit hammered when I made that comment – booze ruling the keyboard I think!
The majority of your post Paul I agree with, it was this part that I thought was claptrap.

“Which leads me to ask this question . Are some people on this forum so lazy to think that the laptop is the answer to improving their angling skills ?”

But then again, you enjoy a good pull round don’t you, so keep it coming.
Pad.

[TF_Paddy]

Smiling croc? :confused: :confused:

[TF_James wilson]

All depends on what forums you use and who you listen to on them, doesn’t it?

[TF_ian1980]

ive sat behind most top anglers up north never got near will raison cos hes a miserable fooka but ive learnt so much about rigs etc but feeding i really think u need to put the effort in to understand how they what it through the match.myself ive always been an aggressive feeder but some of the top anglers im very good friends barely feed owt n get good results so advise over the laptop will always get varied answers.PRACTISE MAKES PERFECT thats my motto.something always stuck in my mind,many yrs ago i was only 16, i once asked alan scotthorne how to fish friskerton on the trent while during a dinner break,while he was a joiner on same site i was on,before all his success,i was expecting a very long nice n sweet answer peg to peg run down well i got the shock of my life he replied go yourself n work it out just like i had to do,i ate up n fooked off but its always stuck in my mind im 42 now

[Anonymous]

Dont worry, Ian1980. I,ve had Alan Scotthorne on the next peg to me on 3 days out of 5 at Whiteacres in the Maver or Preston festival. Not sure which one it was. After each match Alan came and sat next to me and had a chat. Main questions where about how I had caught down the bank while he struggled. He could see everything that I was doing and we had similar bait and tackle ect, but he could not make his margins work for him. Its very difficult to explain to a 5 times and raining world champ at the time that maybe im just better than him, lol. He never got the answers that he wanted, lol.

Practice helps. Experiences can go a long way. Understanding rigs, set-ups and feeding pattern can be taught to some extent. Understanding bait and how fish feed is more difficult for most to understand (Paul,s bread method is a very good example). All can be describbed on forums, in mags or by watching or talking to others. However, knowing when and how to use all of this info is down to the individual anglers natural ability. Does not mean that anglers cannot enjoy our sport or try to learn more. Interesting that feeding patterns hardly ever get discussed on forums or in the mags in any detail but has to be one of the most important parts of angling.

No, James Wilson. All the angling forums have members who attempt to give answers to most questions asked. As to who you listen to. Just because a named quality angler gives his opinion on a subject. Does not mean that they are 100% correct all of the time or that you have the talent or skills to be able to replicate what they are attempting to suggest to its full potential. We all do the basic things in a similar way but its the small details that often make a big difference between making something work to its full potential, catching a few or struggling. Too many anglers believe that they must fish the IN method or bait to have the best chance of winning. Wrong IMHO. Its the same with the draw bag. You must draw a flier or your beaten before you get to your peg. Its interesting that the same few anglers win most of the pools money on most venues. Although, most of the anglers are doing basically the same things and following the IN methods/baits!

[TF_paulnewell]

When I drifted away from commercial carping , Something I had to shake off was the idea that you might get an edge with a special bait . On venues with no bans some extreme and odd baits can prove usefull. An angler had a good bag of F1s on raisins I remember. In the early yrs P Rice had the record at TBF using Hemp and Tares . My original reason for using bread at TBF was to try and target the big fish and keep the hoards of tiddlers away . No fish meal , No baby food . Get it ? When the F1s got bigger they got the taste and I grew to like them. A lot !! But going back to rivers and skimmer venues the bait deception is a finer line . For example the Trent at Burton I would say at the present time would be mostly maggot ? So you have to compete with all the others with the same bait . Mostly . Ok an odd castor , An odd worm , Maybe a bit of cloud . Hemp for some . You won’t catch 100 2 to 3 oz roach on flavoured luncheon meat for sure . With bream venues I concede there has been a bait that’s probably upstaged worm and castor . Pellets . Where that throws up some questions is do you use FIshmeal or a50 /50?? . These types of questions are the ones the top men are a little hesitant to answer because they still want an edge . A sure fire way of getting yourself disliked is where you ponce the info of a hardworking angler then proceed to do an article in match angler claiming it’s yours not to give the inventor a mention . !!!! 😡

[TF_Mark Wintle]

When I was a lot younger I was also desperate to be the best; my peak was being a decent club angler who won a few opens, winter leagues, club championships and many club matches, and fished some Nationals up to Div 1 but hardly a top open angler despite match fishing for 35 years, now a has-been! I read everything I could, watched the best by travelling all over the place – a long way quite often as I live in Dorset – bought the best gear I could afford and practised and gained experience wherever I could. All of this helped to a point and a few factors emerged. 1). You can win more by doing things more efficiently; faster, slicker, and particularly helpful in matches where it is all about speed – dace, rudd, bleak. 2). Figuring out how to catch the bigger fish and having the patience to build a swim so that they show later is a vital skill, whether it’s caster roach or margin carp. 3) Doing it different can pay off; i.e. being a step ahead of the pack, developing new methods and baits and keeping the lid on it for as long as possible. I can remember stocking a lake with 500 rudd in 1980 all about 2oz on a water where a tench of 2lb with a handful of small roach would win – rock hard – two years later we found the water had 80 to the pound (they’d bred in 81) rudd in about 5 swims but until August neither me or a mate drew one of these swims. In the meantime we had practised in secret and no one else had cottoned on but finally we both had a swim full of these rudd – just a 4 hour match but my mate decided for some reason to give me an hour’s start. I had 300 after an hour so he went for them and was catching me up at the end but I had 11-11, a new match record, he had 8-3 for second and you should have seen the faces of some of the regulars who thought their 2-8 would frame! I can remember the same with sticky mag and my team taking Dryad apart in a winter league. 4) Trusting the luck of the draw will even out in time. There are times when nothing can go right but plodding through these bad patches and sharpening up despite seemingly getting bad pegs every week takes some doing but often followed by a string of good draws. I once went from September to February with a top weight of 3oz! Even the day I had two grayling only 1.5 oz but then it changed and by the new season I was back to winning again. 5) Reducing fish losses – i.e. not losing fish – can make a difference that few pick up on. Dryad was like this in pre-method days where anyone could hook 12-15 carp but many lost 3/4 of them and those who only lost one or two framed. All food for thought.

[TF_paulnewell]

Paddy i think I should explain smiling croc . When you visit the same venue over and over , and win more than some like a bad atmosphere can develope . A few anglers who may be jealous or think you’re not worthy get together and try to bend the ear of the manager or owner . Behind your back . Formerly known as backstabbers ! Now smiling crocs , nice to your face !!!! O K . 😀

[TF_footplate]

Like I said Paul you can watch and learn or become a smiling croc there’s a few in our club that have banned two baits ,bread and paste because they can’t be arsed learning to fish them !

[TF_paulnewell]

Footplate the biggest disaster about banning this particular bait is the cost ? I mean when I filled TBF in with 20 value loaves it cost me 9£ . 😀 😀 :D. Truly 8 loaves in the height of summer was plenty . Many of the wankers that moaned on and on about my shit method don’t go any more . The boss man from what I hear has seen no improvement in the numbers entering . The no 1 smiling croc now tells everyone it should never have been banned ????? Amazing Bullshit ! All it achieved was to hand easier wins to his on site pro ! Now I am off to Glouster canal with Gb and maggots .. Happy Days . 🙂 🙂 🙂

[TF_Fred Davis]

Absolutely spot on advice Paul I have lost count of the number of good anglers I have sat behind and watched over the years to glean info on approach shotting patterns and tecnique, you will learn much more doing this than you will in a lot of practice sessions, I remember sitting behind Mark Pollard on the grand Union canal in a match, it was bloodworm and joker and everyone was struggling on the day apart from one lad who had drawn on the noted bream peg, what was noticeable however was that Mark was catching much better than anyone else around him, however what he was doing differently was that he was adding chopped worm to his joker feed, he asked as not to tell anyone fishing what he was doing on that day and we kept quiet, after a couple of hours we walked back along the canal to where we had parked it was noticeable that Mark was the only angler using this tactic, a question of thinking outside the box? Another time sitting behind Dave Vincent squatt fishing for mainly canal roach he was lifting into his bites if the fish came to the top it was lifted out and shipped back in the air, if on lifting it stayed slightly lower it came back through the water, fish that can be shipped back through the air come in a lot faster than those shipped back through the water however the bigger fish were not lifted as they would drop off and could tangle the rig as well as costing ounces a real judgement call that takes practice but once learnt can add valuable ounces with the extra time gained when fishing. However watching and realising what is going on are two totally different things of the five or so anglers watching Dave at the time only two of us appreciated what was actually happening the other anglers had watched and hadn’t learnt or even realised to them Dave was just bagging one a bung.

[TF_JohnH]

I don’t think you can expect top anglers to spill the beans that easily. As far as I can tell there are not any very rich anglers around choose how good they are.
They rely on articles and sponsorship to pay their way along with a bit of tuition for some.
To maintain this they have to be at the top of their game where the odd edge is vital.
I don’t think it was every any different.
Just look at how some top rods get no where at places like W/A. it seems lots of anglers have worked out things there that others have not quite sussed out.
Hardly blame them for keeping quiet about it.

[Author]

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