As fare as im aware. The North West winter league was the last winter league to change to points from over all weight. It was the biggest winter league in the country and very competitive with no team dominating from year to year. The league was very popular while many leagues where falling apart across the country. Kevin fished in this league. The pay outs where massive for the individual top 3 and team pay outs where ok as well. From what i can remember. It was £320 for a match win and £280 for 2nd in a match. Once it went to points like all the other leagues. Teams soon dropped out and it started to be dominated by a few teams. So, maybe Big Kev has a point!

I read the article and was very impressed by what he had to say. Having not been on the match fishing scene when he was around I have heard his name mentioned on a few occassions by the odd angler who knew him or he’s been mentioned in the angling media. On every occassion his name is mentioned by someone speaking vocally or by someone in the media they are always complimentary towards him.

Think I have to disagree however with him though when he says that team fishing matches should be decided on weight and not by points. He’s correct in saying that the teams with the best anglers will win under the points system but surely that’s what it’s all about. You want the best teams winning because they have worked out whatever winning method on any given day and put it into practise, not because they have drawn on a shedfull of fish. I’m saying this not as a top angler as I’d rather see me framing on the odd occassion and feel great because I’ve worked hard rather than winning because I drew a flyer.

I’m not in a position to comment about the attendances because as I said earlier I wasn’t around in his day. It probably would create larger attendances as every Tom, Dick and Del-boy will have a chance because in my opinion it would be more of a lottery that would be won at the draw bag rather than by practise and hard work.~clap ~clap ~clap

Del-boy

It depends if you see team fishing as all about the best team winning, or maintaining the crack and banter that brought most of us into match fishing in the first place…

Let’s face it team fishing is completely koofed. Only a fool would want it to continue to decline as it has for the last decade just for the sake of ‘the best team always winning…’. Ludicrous.

But it needs someone in charge to step up to the plate, ignore those with the loudest voices, and do what’s best for the sport…

Which won’t happen.

Okay let me ask you this.
What makes match fishing fun?
The answer is not the fishing.
Watching top anglers and learning from them is interesting. But fun???
Catching fish ourselves is satisfying, but it’s not exactly a laugh a minute to ton up on carp is it?
No, what’s fun is being around the characters, and it doesn’t matter how good they are at fishing.
In fact most of us know that some of the best characters aren’t that good at match fishing, but they are damn good fun to be around.
What’s gone wrong is that those characters stopped seeing the point in going, because they kept losing money. It’s hard anough to justify being away from the family anyways these days, but if you are losing money as well…
The monstrous rise in petrol hasn’t helped either, but the problem is that the fun has gone out of it. If it was great fun, men would put up with the grief from er indoors because it would be worth it. But it isn’t.
NWC, what on earth do you mean ‘some argue that team fishing is dying a death?’.
Is there anyone who thinks it isn’t?
Of course it is. There used to be five Nationals!!!

Our “local” winter league folded this year and at the last meeting one of the teams that had been last or nearly last most matches over all that time were still willing to put up a team. They just asked for one venue to be used and still our chairman was trying to get out of using it as it was a comercial and not a “natural” venue….
I think first we need people to enjoy fishing!!! We work all week and this is what we do to unwind!
Winning at all costs has got to stop. Good/Great teams will always get to the top on any league as its over so many matches. But we need everyone to think or beleive that they can compete on any day. That is why they will keep turning up. All this bo##icks about cant put that peg in cause its too good…Let someone fill there boots and have a story to tell at team meeting for years to come.

Kev fishes in Ireland mostly now and I have had the privilage of being next peg to him on a few occasions. Battered on all of them BUT I felt that I could compete as I was tip fishing and he was on the pole. In my head I was thinking a few bream and I will catch him up…. It never happened but I still beleived..

If your on a team match and one angler with a big weight can pull the team through no one will give up and what a hero that man can be..Again another team story is born.

Lets hope that we can turn it around as its nice winning on your own but nothing beats winning in a team of mates..

I Totally agree Dave.
by the way , We had a match yesterday on the island, I was asked to leave out the corner pegs as they were thought to be fliers.
I left them in and they were drawn by 2 lads least likely to win , but they came 1st/2nd and were over the moon , neither had paid into superpool though.

Well I’m at Home and not fishing for only the 2nd Sunday this year.

I went pleasure fishing on Friday rather than be pools fodder on the Surrey WL on a commercial today.

When the SWL had 120 anglers (10×12)the venues were tightly pegged and you had a chance at the drawbag against Dorking and their England superstars.

Now it is down to 6×10 the pegging is very generous and just plays even more into their hands.

Sure you get a days fishing but there’s day will be 10 times better than you. I’m not good enough and don’t put the time in so I choose the clubbie scene now. I’m afraid it’s anglers like me that allow the top sides to flourish.

I said 5 years ago the SWL had 5 years left, well it’s managed to last just about.

We are struggling down here as well with various leagues combining to get enough anglers. Our river matches are dier due to lack of flow and colour with very low weights as backup.
We’ve had teams pegging the worst pegs so as to produce a tiddler snatching match. The big fish pegs left out so that they wouldn’t beat the snatchers.

It would be nice if somebody would change to a weight system to see if it reverses the decline.

We used to have a winter league with 28 teams of 6 with 3 or 4 teams on the waiting list. Now we only have 11. Alot of teams also struggle to get people to fish every match.

Geeps says – “Of course it is. There used to be five Nationals!!!”

No Geeps there used to be ONE National and it was called the All England Championships. The teams came from angling associations affiliated to the NFA and I believe there was a minimum membership requirement for a team to take part. The match was decided on a teams total weight and therefore ALL the competing teams felt they had a chance. Although some teams were hand picked other squads were made up from club members who had qualified to fish from a series of elimination matches and for most this was THE event of the year. It was a fantastic day out with an overnight stay often being involved and some really good tackle shows to be seen whilst waiting for the draw. As an added bonus the top 5 teams best scorers even got to fish for England in the World Champs. I doubt we will ever return to those halcyon days where fishing was largely for fun and it was considered an achievement just to fish an All England but of all the major team competitions I have ever been involved in I enjoyed the old style Nationals the best.~think

Unfortunately we are becoming our own worst enemy: Fishing gear is cheap (comparatively) to a few years ago for major items but we are carrying more so the actual cost is actually increased.

Winnings are pitiful so you can end up winning a Winter League and still being out of pocket. If you KNOW that even by winning you end up ‘losing’ what is the incentive?

The people that are left fishing aren’t mugs and probably 80% of the field in most matches I’ve attended are capable of winning compared to about 10-20% thirty years ago.

You have to get onto a Winter League to get a decent sized match or prepare for a ‘foddering’ for a few weeks at you local commercial before you get your head around the venue….

Something does have to change but I think people are generally reluctant to embrace the changes that need to happen and as a result this sport is doomed.

Unfortunately Mark costings are a prime concern for the majority of anglers making up the numbers at matches these days. It will continue to be the case. The craic to be had is still there but the cliques are alot tighter as is evidenced by the so called super matches you have referred to in previous postings having all but sold out before the ‘run of the mill’ angler gets to hear about it.

There are many facets to match fishing, the question of whether dropping the points system would encourage more to attend is a fair one.

On an open for individuals the results are based on weight. You either fish a belter or blowout, as you are trying to win.

On a League based on points, consistency is rewarded and in general benefits the angler that is capable of beating at least the angler left and right, and over the course of the league that skill will be rewarded.

On a league based solely on weight, the ability to draw well is rewarded as is the ability to maximise that draw.

In team fishing the match tactics are different in that you can’t afford to blowout and those individuals that are inconsistent won’t make the team.

Whether leagues should be based on points or weight depends on the type. Is it a team or individual event? If the latter then it really doesnt matter so long as section points aren’t used on points based matches.

On team leagues then the also rans do have a shot if weight is the only criteria but I think there will be a higher degree of blowouts as individuals within the team will be tempted down the path win or bust.

I think regardless of which route you take with it, when money is involved in the winning, there will always be a group who want it different.

I quite like the idea of leagues being run on a weight basis. But also, wouldn;t it be better for costs to be reduced too. 20 or 25 quid all in is alot if you’re fishing once or twice a week. Maybe 10 all in, with an optional pools for those who want to pay the extra, would see attendancies on the increase.

I think one of the reasons most winter leagues are on the downward spiral, however, is that most people don’t want to fish natural waters any longer. Those of us who enjoy it seem to be a dying breed and things are only going to get worse as older anglers move away from team fishing.

There also needs to be investment by all teams in bringing on younger anglers into matches, and blooding them in teams. Without doing this, new blood boosting numbers aren’t going to happen.

The East Mids winter league used to be about club teams competing against each other when I dabbled my feet as a teen, now teams are drawn from all over the place. Maybe it’s time for angling times, or someone else, to think about a clubs version of the winter league?

Open matches are the same, like a few of the 60 plus guys who fish my club matches said, it’s 20 quid all in on an open now and you pick up 100. 30 years ago it was 5 quid to enter, and you could pick up 500-1000. And they confirmed weights were often no better, and the same anglers still picked up more often than not.

I am sorry to say it, but I think coarse angling is dying overall and am surprised nobody else can see that. Look at the age of anglers on the bank. Fewer kids means fewer people to replace us when we die!

The sport is decadent, with too much emphasis on kit and with venue experts who fish in only a handful of places.

Team fishing, which requires more anglers and more organisation is one of the first casualties, and will continue to decline. But there will be other aspects of the sport that will continue to dwindle.

My suspected reason for this? I hardly dare say it again, although I’ve said it on here many times before.

I fear that the rise of the ‘mercial has seduced us with the chance to park behind a peg and sack up. But this is counter to the culture of the sport.

Monday morning polemic over.