Rob a very silly and misguided post IMO.

I think you should have kept the two events separate but your attack on the firefighters is very shabby. You are normally far better than that. From the onset the FBU has said it wanted to talk and reach a sensible agreement. IMO that is a very reasonable and mature stance. Nothing has changed, they have remained consistent. However, following discussions (I would surmise that those in management have been the ones climbing down, no doubt influenced by higher authorities) it is now possible to look towards a sensible resolution. A strike can still happen but interestingly a previously very vocal Conservative councillor has become very quiet which may mean those arrogant and stupid enough to think they can treat employees like dog dirt on their shoe have been told by people higher in their food chain to keep quiet and listen.

I would call that progress.

The BBC Strike. Perfectly reasonable. No doubt more will follow. If you try to tamper with pensions you are going to create problems especially when those making the decisions whatever their political allegiance fraudulently swindled expenses and only cabinet members have taken a small reduction in salary. Personally, I want to see every MP have their salary reduced by 10%. If they do that then I might argue they have some credibility.

There will be a resurgance in trade unionism. Unions are on the rise in China and India. We may not have the volatile nature of strikes in the 1980’s but I would hope that our Government would not stoop to the lows of that time.

Ultimately, it is the workers right to withdraw their labour in protest of management action. They don’t get paid so it is up to the management to decide which course of action suits them best.

The people’s flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead,
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts’ blood dyed its ev’ry fold.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

Look ’round, the Frenchman loves its blaze,
The sturdy German chants its praise,
In Moscow’s vaults its hymns are sung
Chicago swells the surging throng.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

It waved above our infant might,
When all ahead seemed dark as night;
It witnessed many a deed and vow,
We must not change its colour now.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

It well recalls the triumphs past,
It gives the hope of peace at last;
The banner bright, the symbol plain,
Of human right and human gain.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

It suits today the weak and base,
Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place
To cringe before the rich man’s frown,
And haul the sacred emblem down.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.

Then raise the scarlet standard high.
Within its shade we’ll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We’ll keep the red flag flying here.

Mark Barnes: Capitalist who would prefer to be a Socialist every minute of my existance!

hello hello tory boys at it again. what a prat you are tory boy with your middle class sod them all im all right jack attitude. you and your like put us in this mess were in now and then blame everyone else. how long do you think the people of this country are going to put up with the old lady next door not getting her meals on wheels so the bankers can have there bonus. or a top exec in a public bank gets another job and we the people pay him 350k till he can take up his new post and by the way son stay at home we will still pay you. how long before we have to bail out another lame duck bank at the cost of everyone else,s welfare. soon there will be 5 million out of work and the unions will get stronger so get used to it tory boy your gravy train days are numbered.

@caster rob wrote:

” you and your like put us in this mess were in now and then blame everyone else.”

So the labour government of the last thirteen years was a mirage?

The “gravy train” had halted in the public-sector last time I looked, and had been there for a considerable time.

Pity we don’t have a Tory government now, we need one.

No one can deny that we need to curb public spending but the point that is constantly missed by people like you is that the vast majority of public sector spending is with the private sector.

What ever sum the Govt plans to reduce spending by, will have a huge impact on the private sector and there will be a massive ripple effect.

Just to give an example.

I recently had a meeting with a Travel Management Company that is used by a lot of Govt departments.

They have already noticed a significant drop in hotel bookings since the election. That has affected them because they get a commission for each booking made.

The hotels have more rooms empty per night. That affects them and they won’t need as much laundry, food or other supplies. That will affect their suppliers who will have a shortfall in orders and so won’t be buying as much which in turn will affect their suppliers. It goes on and on.

That is just one example but there are plenty more. The print trade, which is already struggling, will also be badly affected due to the moratorium on spend on government printing.

As well as 500,000 public sector workers being out of jobs, it is likely that there will be as many, if not more, people put out of work in the private sector. How much revenue will the exchequer lose as a result of lost taxes from these people? Not to mention the cost to the country in benefits.

What a hypocrite you are though.

In the same post you make reference to the gravy train and go on to say its a shame we don’t have a Tory government.

This in the same week that the leader of the Tory party appoints a photograher and justifies it by saying he has sacked a spin doctor. Surely if he is serious about saving money then he must know that he could have saved even more by not appointing the photographer and sacking a spin doctor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325959/David-Camerons-personal-photographer-handed-job-government-payroll.html

Never mind though we can always put up university fees to pay for it or perhaps sack a few firemen. Must get our priorities right after all.

Easy reply – get Maggie back.

Imagine what state this country would be in now if the miners had won………

@Snooty Fox wrote:

Easy reply – get Maggie back.

Imagine what state this country would be in now if the miners had won………

aye and mortgage rates at 15 percent again.
i can’t wait!
the sooner shes good and dead the better.

i’m proud to be a socialist and see all english and uk citizenry included as part of national economic interest and inclusion instead of the tax and business interests of the traditional land and capital social and economic famial dynasties and associations that the coalition parties historically represent.

@caster rob wrote:

” you and your like put us in this mess were in now and then blame everyone else.”

So the labour government of the last thirteen years was a mirage?

The “gravy train” had halted in the public-sector last time I looked, and had been there for a considerable time.

Pity we don’t have a Tory government now, we need one.

coporate tax has now dropped by 1% whilst the working classes taxes have gone up.

@Snooty Fox wrote:

Easy reply – get Maggie back.

Imagine what state this country would be in now if the miners had won………

ive got the party banners ready once she pops her clogs, tried to destroy liverpool but she failed!.

@dirkdiggler wrote:

@Snooty Fox wrote:

Easy reply – get Maggie back.

Imagine what state this country would be in now if the miners had won………

aye and mortgage rates at 15 percent again.
i can’t wait!
the sooner shes good and dead the better.

Fingers crossed ‘The Evil One’ won’t see 2011

I think people need to stop believing the vitriolic diatribe that Bob Crow, Derek Simpson, Tony Woodley etc spout. This is best summed up by herbie’s comment:

“how long do you think the people of this country are going to put up with the old lady next door not getting her meals on wheels so the bankers can have there bonus”

It is not possible to have a sensible discussion on this topic with anyone who honestly believes that bonuses earned by bankers have any direct relationship with welfare provision.

Here’s another question for you all:

How long is this country going to prosper if the government continues borrowing £1 in every £8 that it spends?

And for anyone who thinks that tax rates should be higher, I suggest you google “Laffer curve” and have a think about where we sit on that curve when our income, consumption and corporation tax rates are all higher than our major international competitors.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0141032367/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1846140390&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1B0C8SBEC8N27S7HFM8N

if it was for bob crow etc then we would be back to the days of men waiting at the factory gates to be given a job for a days pay!. May aswell go back in time then, and put your kids in the cotton mills.

“if it was for bob crow etc then we would be back to the days of men waiting at the factory gates to be given a job for a days pay!. May aswell go back in time then, and put your kids in the cotton mills.”

We are already there with agency workers waiting for phone calls to tell them if they are required or not for the next day.

@caster rob wrote:

” you and your like put us in this mess were in now and then blame everyone else.”

So the labour government of the last thirteen years was a mirage?

The “gravy train” had halted in the public-sector last time I looked, and had been there for a considerable time.

Pity we don’t have a Tory government now, we need one.

head and dick spring to mind.

as one of the aforementioned masculine types i’d like you to explain why thatcher is such a heroine figure.
on a really personal level lets wind back to 1984 the year i got married and got on the property ladder for the first time.
the thought process at the time was to buy yourself a decent property and get on in life so i did.
i bought a house which i could afford at a staggering £118 per month mortgage this was a bit of a push but hey ho in my dewy eyed young naivity i thought that would be fine.
however nine months and nine mortgage rate hikes later the rate was up to 15 percent and my mortgage was now an unaffordable £200 a month.
so for the next six years or so i had to take three seperate butchering jobs which meant i started work at 4am and finished at 8pm six days a week.
lots of people seem to have enjoyed the eighties however i don’t remember too much about them.
i have always kind of blamed mrs thatcher for this however if you tell me due to your own personal story why you like her so much i’d be more than willing to have a rethink.

From a family of coal miners and mainly manufacturing employees I can safely tell you that had the IRA killed Thatcher I would have gladly celebrated.

Rob, if you want the biggest gravy train period in the public sector it was during the Thatcher era. It has progressively got tougher.

I wonder how Scots feel about Thatcher dining out on their oil wealth. There was the biggest gravy train and robbery ever.

If it offends anybody. Sorry. The day Thatcher dies I will cheer.

I also started with a mortgage in the eighties,never felt that it was a problem paying it but at the time a mortgage was all we had on the slate.If we wanted a telly we saved up and bought it when we could afford it.Didnt have a car,couldnt afford it.If things were tight we just did a few hours extra at the factory,no big deal.At the time i was on crap money and so was the wife but we budgeted,and although it looks like its rocket science to some,our budget was based on total expenditure < than total income.
Now,onto the blessed saint maggie.I have got mates back oop north with champagne thats been on ice for 25 years now,waiting for an old woman to die!What a waste of life,waiting for another human being to die.I have got mates who still believe that on the day she dies all the pits will re-open.
Unions,whats the point of them.Never been in one never needed one.I work with the belief that if i am good at my job i will be rewarded,if i am not rewarded then i can exersize my right to sod off and work for someone else.Collective bargaining=someone good at his job gets same payrise as someone who does not give a stuff.

Is George Osbourne Margarate Thatcher,s and Norman Lamont,s love child ?

Margaret Thatcher and the government of the time were an evil and vindictive scourge. I too will be celebrating when she falls off the perch. She did nothing for my class and killed manufacturing in the UK.

She did what I would hope any Prime Minister would have done with regards to the Falklands but don’t forget it was the Tory administration that got rid of the Vulcan (That conducted the incredible ‘Black Buck’ bombing raid on Port Stanley) and decommissioned the large air craft carriers too! We were very lucky to achieve the victory in the South Atlantic and with Thatcher’s Government so keen to announce the strategy of the campaign incredibly fortuitous to have lost so few men with the attack on Goose Green.

Obviously, Thatcher was more concerned with the coming election than the safety and well being of the (largely) working class servicemen doing their duty in that campaign.

We now have another Tory government leaving us with no carriers and no Harrier ground support aircraft!

Trade unions at the time needed to modernise (I certainly put a fresh face to the movement in the mid 1980’s and did a fair bit of TV and soundbites for radio at the time.

There is becoming an increasing trend in employers to disregard employment law and it is becoming increasingly harder to win at tribunal.

My recent employer was shockingly bad at even the most basic rights and employment practices and are probably set to get worse: They had even sacked someone without conducting an Investigation or Disciplinary Hearing and the guy went quietly while I was (and still am!) jumping up and down!

What gives people the right to try to not treat the workforce with care and respect?

If they did, they would get a damn sight more enthusiasm and productivity out of their workforce.