what about a tubertini stix float or 1 of the new sensas pellet pencil patterns

Better anglers may be able to expand on this but sometimes its not the float,but the setup.Positioning of final dropper shot,size of droppers etc can make a big difference on how a float behaves.As an example with a thick or medium bristle then a size 12 or 13 shot may not register so if this shot is moved then you may not see the bite.Just out of interest what floats and shotting patterns are you using?.Info may help even the better anglers to help you further.

Thin topped dibber, 4mm Got pellet fished hook in the loop.

@squatt wrote:

Thin topped dibber, 4mm Got pellet fished hook in the loop.

Cant work out if thats an attempt at humour or sarcasm?Whatever,thought i was helping or at least getting the lad to expand on what he was doing so that others could help him further.

I find this set up works for me so may be worth a try.

I always use a slim bodied float with a 1-1.2mm bristle normally hollow plastic but more recently cane, Fishing with a bulk the dropper shots tent to be at least 10s with the last one 6in or less from the hook. The float is dotted down and I find if set at dead depth the weight of the hook and bait will take the float down the last few millimeters.

With this set up you will quite often see a small lift as the fish picks up the bait and I asume just sits there “chewing it” and 9 times out of 10 a small lift of the pole results in a hook up.

With the 10 dropper close to the hook any bite when the fish moves of sideways is quite positive too and pretty easy to hit.

drawbag: I used to fish a venue, Parker’s at Bulkington, that probably 25% of your Winter catch was skimmers on the pellet.

Nick the 2nd’s advice about fishing absolutely dead depth is crucial for catching skimmer in the Winter, imho. I’ve won a match next to someone who never saw a bite in the Winter up there!

At 3oz a go, aren’t you better off avoiding them perhaps?

What venue is it? What other fish are there and what are the winning weights?

Had the same problem at withy yesterday. Fished a 1mm hollow tipped pencil float. The bites from skimmers were hard to hit. Had it shotted with bulk of no 10s halfway and a no12 dropper and 4mm pellet at dead depth. To get positive bites I swapped the last no 10 for the no12 and instantly the bites were proper sailaways. Dont think the no12 dropper was showing the bites properly. Pretty much what Nick has just described.
Done my head in for an hour tried everything even the hook in the loop.

Forgot to mention I like to use a float with a 30mm long tip at least. From my own range of course!

Have you tried the HITL?

Sorry but I replied in good faith. Hook in the loop will nail skimmers every time. 2no 8’s at the top of the loop ie 2 inches long and 3no 8’s say a foot away. Strike/lift at eveything.

If the skimmers are that small then a fine groundbait with very little squatt feed would work well ( also a single squatt on the hook ). Drop the odd 4mm pellet in to try for a bonus fish now and then.

drawbag1967 & DAT I assumed you were talking of skimmers on commercials as you mentioned a pellet type float and most only fish these types of waters. Maybe an incorrect assumption but your question had little to go on, only that you missed a lot of fish. Don’t try the hook in the loop. Stick with your ‘pretty’ floats and works of art shotting patterns involving 30 no.12’s. Your shot needs to register a bite. Well it obviously isn’t because you missed so many bites. My advice is carry on ‘looking’ the biss.

THE FLOATS I USE ARE THE MBCANAL SPECIALS
THE TRACK VERSION WITH THE FIBER TIPS DOTTED DOWN SHOWS EVERYTHING UP

like squatt ive had good success with the HITL
more so when the bites are finiky from skimmers
float bristle lifting, and lift your pole, fish on 9 times out of 10

Use a double bulk.

Main bulk 12-14in from hook and 2 No 8’s together 3 ins from the hook.

The rig should be fished so that the No 8’s are just off the bottom, (no more than an inch off).

You don’t need to use a light float as you want to get the bait down quickly and the float should have a long nylon bristle for maximum sensitivity. Bites will be either positive lifts or sail aways.

Although the rig may look unrefined it is deadly especially if you have a lot of fish in the peg.

On hard days when bites are at a premium a standard slow drop rig, (bulk and three No 10’s six ins apart), would be my usual rig however if I’m suffering liners and silly bites a switch to a double bulk can transform the peg.

drawbag its not the actual hook within the loop that i found helped but the 2 no8 shot that are an inch away these had a massive impact on the float bristle and let you see the tiniest of bites with ease!
like dave said the double bulk would work in effect the same way, and experimenting on the day moving them closer and closer to the hook will probs sort out the bites for you…
but every day is different!

I use the HITL for all my pellet fishing because when small skimmers become a problem you ll end up missing too many bites on conventional rigs. Whether people want to use the loop is up to them but you need to have either one or two number eights as close to the hook as you can. Its the only way of making sure the bait is in their mouths and when that float lifts, there is only one place it can be. For this you need something bouyant and although pencil floats are all the rage these days, they are not really much good for soft pellet and delicate bites at distance.

In my opinion I dont see that float shapes making much difference when everyone is using another version of the same rig. Bristles are so wrong for pellet fishing in my experience as they are shotted with shot that are too small and don’t often show all the indications. Bouyant floats on the other hand make it virtually impossible for F1s and skimmers to pick up with bait without detection and as we all know, the bite worth hitting is always the first indication. After that you might as well leave it once it sails away. Unfortunately, bristles, unless shotted correctly, tend to show only sail aways and missed bites at 16 metres is not my idea of a good day fishing. Just an opinion thats all.

Amen.

Poor old squatt, tries to offer some genuine advice and gets hammered for taking the piss !

Just because things are unconventional doesn’t mean to say they don’t work. Fish wise up quickly to the same rigs.. its a shame that some anglers don’t. Any rig that accentuates the first idication has to be worth considering, simply because the fish don’t get the chance to eject the bait. I accept that people like to fish with light lines, small shot and small hooks for pellet fishing but I am not sure whether that is neccessary. In my opinion I think it makes things worse. I don’t think it makes much difference where you place your shot on the line as you most of the bites you get at this time of year occur when the rig has settled. I m all for using bulk shot but the biggest problem is what you put beneath them. You need something heavy like number 8s near the hook otherwise you won’t see the lifts. In general most bites tend to be dips which show up very well on a dotted down float but the odd lift bites can sometimes be bonus fish so I think its best to have a rig which can account for these.

Theoretically the HITL loop should nt work as well as it does but that demonstrates how irrelevant fine diameter lines are in the winter. I know this rig is old hat now but there are still people who refuse to try it because its different to the conventional wisedom on pellet fishing. I ve yet to see any rig that competes with it. Feeding is still the most important part of what we do but that again can cause more problems with missed bites where anglers insist on feeding micros through pole pots.

@Giles1 wrote:

Feeding is still the most important part of what we do but that again can cause more problems with missed bites where anglers insist on feeding micros through pole pots.

I was more than a little sceptical about the HITL tbh Giles. It certainly seems to work though. I also agree that there are times when more positive shotting is necessary and 2 No 8’s within a couple of inches of the hookbait show the lifts much better.

I do agree with your statement that apart from having fish in front of you, feeding is the most important part of fishing compared to almost any other part of it. I would put presentation second, bait and tackle lagging far behind. That is what makes me particularly interested in you comment about feeding through a pole pot.

I know that under some circumstances, feeding with a pole pot becomes really negative and a much more pro active method like reasonably accurate loose feeding is desired. Is this what you are on about or is there something else?

Hi mate,

We all used to feed through a pot when this F1 revolution started as somewhere we believed that keeping the bait tight was the way forward. I realised a long time ago that it was not. Apart from feeding in a tight area, pot feeding makes it difficult to feed properly, especially if you have more than one line. I see people dumping bait on one line as it is impossible to feed small amounts through a pot when you are fishing another line. I find that regular feeding brings fish in from competitors swims as fish come to the vibrations not quantities. It is also easier to feed three lines consisently with a catapult. You can lift the rig, feed, hook a fish and feed again before shipping back. That takes some doing if you are using a pot.

As for micros, I never put them in in any context as fish do tend to get preoccupied with them and this results in too many foul hookers. Feed 4mms and fish a 4mm expander on the hook and you wont go far wrong. In addition, I am feeding very regularly which I think is the secret to big bags of winter fish. I feed 10-14 times a minute no matter what but I vary the quantity from 2 pellets to 10 pellets depending on how solid the peg becomes. I never alter the frequency though. That should give you any idea of the feeding pattern and yes I get through 2-3 pints of pellet at times but the results speak volumes.

I would have to concur with evreything Giles has suggested. I haven’t used a pole pot for nearly 2 seasons when pellet fishing and often end up suing the HITL rig set up along side a ‘standard’ pellet rig. I have found however that when bigger carp are the target (2lb plus), in summer particularly, a “worked” strung out bulk rig and hair-banded pellet seems better.

Alwasy try an match your hook bait to your feed.

Jon

I dont know about others who use the rig but when fishing HITL I always try and make the hook loop as small as possible. I find a small loop ‘holds open’ better than a bigger one, allowing the hook to maintain free movement.

This also alloes me to put the lower ‘bulk’ much closer to the hook if needed.

J

i have to agree with you there drawbag!
feeding that often and getting through 2 pints of bait at this time of the year!!
you wouldnt get a bite on my local!
if i feed 10 pellets ive often fed too much!!

Thanks for the reply Giles. I may be wrong but think you may have meant 10 to 14 times an hour rather than a minute. Certainly I find that being a bit more positive in feeding has meant more fish for me rather than feeding with toss pot. It was always the same with casters and maggots on rivers – unless you kept feeding regularly, even if it was 2 or 3 you wouldn’t catch much. Feeding that way induces the fish to have a go even when they are not really hungry.

I feed the same way in the winter on the venues I fish, looking to catch anything that swims, but predominantly roach & skimmers.

I use a catty to constantly feed so there is always something falling through the water, the only time I am not feeding is when the pole is being shipped in and out! Not big pouchfulls just a few lose offerings, these would be either maggot, 4mm pellet, or sometimes both, hook bait would be the same as the feed.

I have never tried hitl , do you tie it with an overhand loop?

Im loving this and the other threads, have to say im guilty of the blinkered pot approach, when people say they are catapulting pellets this time of year are we talking softened 4mm’s and expanders???

Great read isn’t it?

I think that it is expanders, well that is what I use or else casters if the roach are going to go better than the skimmers.

I would feed exactly what is on the hook myself.

Which is maggot or expander where I fish.

I believe its 4ml dampened down hard pellets, Glebe1 but i could be wrong on that part. Feeding expanders is baned on many venues.

Those who know me will agree that i almost never feed micro,s. I would rather feed nothing than feed micro,s to be totally honest on most venues. As Giles suggests. Micro,s often result in liners, foul hooked fish and the fish often become preoccupied and ignore the hook bait. Whats the sense in that? Match the feed to your hook bait as best you can and many of you will catch a lot more fish especially in winter!

Think about the feeding pattern that Giles is suggesting before knocking it. 3 swims fed continually with a catty. Thats 3/4 times per minute per swim with 2/10 pellets depending on how the venue is fishing and the target weight needed to win. 3 pints of 4mls is not such a lot of feed between 3 swims over 5/6 hours when attempting to put together 50lb – 100lb+ bags of F1s, skimmers and other fish.

Spreading your feed is much more likely to make the fish work for there food in your swim once they arrive. Less liners because the fish are spread over a larger area. Thats often the key to big bags of fish. There is also less chance of spooking the fish when you start to catch. Its the tight pile of feed dropped in with a pole cup that spooks the fish in my opinion. It still amazes me that i see most anglers attempting to kick start there swims with a good helping of feed in a cup(squeezed ball of micro,s) lol. Added to this. You hook one or two fish and the shoal has gone. You have to start again in building up the confidence of any fish still left in your peg! The odd pellet found on the deck over a larger area though being fed with a catty is a much safer bet to the fish. Hook a fish and there is less chance of spooking the rest. Pure common sense if you think about it. Also, remember that fish still come to the sound of feed hitting the water even if there not in a feeding mood.

The key as always is how you feed and how you respond to the bites your getting. Thats where the HITL and the way Giles is feeding comes in to its own.

@Waveney One wrote:

Thanks for the reply Giles. I may be wrong but think you may have meant 10 to 14 times an hour rather than a minute.

I am afraid you are wrong mate he does mean 10-14 times a minute, having said that he will be feeding probably 3 lines which means about 4 times a minute per line, you do need constant bait going through the water and noise attracting the fish from all over. About a month of so ago I was feeding via pole pot and getting the odd bite here and there and just KNEW I needed to do more as the way it was going I just couldnt see the peg getting any better, picked up my catty and loosefed 3-4 times a minute and after 15 mins it was a bite a chuck on skimmers, it was like a light switch turned on.

Cheers and thanks for that Paul. Arms going like a whirling dervish ~think

Been out today and loose fed 1/2 dozen casters more or less non stop. The ice had only cleared a couple of days ago and ended up with about 12lb of perch, roach and 2 * 12 oz skimmers. Not bad for 2 hours fishing but it was the best 2 hours of the day – 1300hrs to 1500hrs. 4lb of that was just 2 perch ~clap. Stretched the old laccy a bit they did.

First fish photographed by the baliff

A close up of the fish

The second one, no one about to take the photo so I put a 2 pint bait box next to it.

Couldn’t weigh them but my guess is around 2lb apiece

I fish most of the venues Giles does, my approach is totally different except two things. Pellet and a catapult. Feeding regular over three lines is something you must be confident in, Giles does put in the hours.I tend to feed very lightly and fish fine working only two swims, I may feed 1/2 pint of bait in a match.Both methods work on the same venues, find which you can fish the best.

And people wonder why ‘names’ don’t post?

I didn’t try Giles’ HitL method as I didn’t find myself on a venue or situation that I felt needed it. It is stored in the back of my mind should I need it, however.

I got back into fishing a while back and a venue was totally dominated by a young guy fishing cat meat over heavy sweetcorn feed.

I tried to emulate and to be fair to the guy he was really forthcoming with information on how he fished and fed it but the thing is, it is impossible to ‘do’ his method and feeding as well as he does!

Adapt what you learn to your own style then make everyone else play ‘catch up’ to your methods!

That is the reason why people can dominate venues for so long: 80% of the field try to ‘do’ the winning methods as practiced by the regulars.

If they used what they had gleaned from others and adapted it to their own style they would be more successful – imho!

I’d be interested in knowing what weights you guys ae fishing for?

On the venues I fish once it gets cold worm, caster and maggot fished in conjunction with groundbait seems to be more consistent than a pellet approach.

Generally I’ll try to fish three lines, one short loose fed with maggot/caster by hand and two long.

The first long line is positively fed with groundbait containing chopped worm, caster and pinkies/squatts and the second is a worm and caster line which is negatively fed.

On my main line I’ll put one or more balls of groundbait in at 13m at one-o-clock, (qty depends on conditions, 1 or 2 if it’s freezing or frosty and 4-6 if it’s warm and overcast, (warm being 8 degrees or more)).

My second line will also be at 13m at ten-o-clock and this will initially be fed with finely chopped worm and caster. This will be topped up with a kinder pot as and when required.

Quite often I’ll start on the waggler and let the two pole lines settle with the intention of going on them after 15 minutes.

Once I switch from the waggler I’ll start on the groundbait line and if no bites are forthcoming I’ll try the chopped worm line. It’s also worth pointing out that when it’s cold and clear it can often take up to an hour for the fish to settle on the groundbait line).

If it’s clear, (most venues are at this time of year), I’ll take two fish off each line which keeps me in touch with both and allows me to gauge as and when I should top up the feed.

Although I prefer to capitalise on one line whenever possible when it’s clear the flashing of hooked fish does unsettle the others therefore it can pay to switch.

On those days when the fish don’t respond to groundbait or the chopped worm line I’ll either revert to the waggler or go out to 14.5m and have a loose feed only line.

Both my groundbait and loose fed lines are fed by catapult however although i am an advocate of having feed falling through the water to attract fish and keep them occupied, I feed wait for the feed to hit the bottom and then wait for a bite. If I don’t get a bite within a minute or so I’ll re-feed.

Although different venues respond to diferent techniques, I’d be very wary of feeding 2 or 3 times a minute over the same line because in winter on the venues I fish you might have to wait five minutes or more for a bite.

If I catch 10 skimmers an hour + odd roach, perch and tench that will give me close to 30lbs or more over the course of a match, (this is a good day), and at this time of year that will be a good weight of silvers on most venues.

There are exceptions however we all have different approaches and that’s what makes it so interesting.

The HITL isn’t the be all and end all, but it will solve the problem in the original post.
Also don’t forget that Giles has fine tuned his technique on his venues. Its no good trying to copy him, but you can take his principles then apply them to your venues. The same can be said for his approach to feeding. How do you know his approach wont work at your venues if you haven’t tried it? You might have to make some changes with quantities and regularity, but little and often is a basic principle is it not? Also I would imagine that he isnt species specific in as much he is probably trying to attract anything that is prepared to have a little feed, skimmers, carp, F1’s, the lot.
Also with regards to names coming on here these boards, I have seen a few come and go over the years, and as the saying goes, if you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Dave in reply to your question about weights, I would be looking to catch 10-50lb depending on the venue and the condition. This could be made up of roach and skimmers, with a few other types fish mixed in.

I don’t know how some of you fish a match and feed half a pint of bait for 5 hours, I broke the ice today and fed two lines and got through 2 pints of maggots catching mostly roach!

Nick.

It’s easy to get through 2 or three pints of bait especially if you are getting bites regulary however I think most of the posters on this topic are struggling with the concept of feeding the same swim 3-4 times a minute in the depths of winter.

If I’m catching roach shallow, feeding by hand I may feed 3-4 times a minute however with the recent temps we’ve had lately and due to the clarity of the water most fish have pushed out into the deeper water and are reluctant to feed positively.

In the last few matches I’ve fed very little as feeding positively had a negative effect. In the latter part of both matches I still managed to hook carp while those around me didn’t so although I fed it negatively I was possibly more positive than those around me.

When it’s warmer you can feed much more positively but at the moment I feel that on most venues it’s safer to stick with a little and often approach.

I have to agree with Dave to some extent. My match today the best silvers weight was 8lb and 2 pints of feed on any peg would have killed it I feel. I fed more than those around me and beat them but when I did try upping the feed even more, it didn’t work and I had to cut back on the number of casters I was feeding at any one time. I maybe got through 3/4 of a pint and weighed in 7lb of roach and perch.

However there are times even in this weather when feeding positively will get dormant fish active. It is not so much the frequency of loose feeding that I have a problem with, although 10 to 15 times a minute with a catty isn’t something that I could achieve whilst landing 35lb of fish. It is the quantities.

I’m interested to know how you fed the 3/4 pint of bait today, was it over several lines or just one, also the frequency of feeding?

I’m interested to know how you fed the 3/4 pint of bait today, was it over several lines or just one, also the frequency of feeding?

In reply to an earlier question, generally the venues we fish need 20 to 40lbs to win/frame in the winter.This would be a mixture of f1s and skimmers with some bream in the 2 to 3lbs bracket. My point was made by an earlier post, pick the brains out of all the info available, find your own style and use the bits that suit you.Trying to copy a method someone has perfected can be a waste of time.Also fish to your strengths, but in my opinion the obvious point is a catapult is much more effective if you are looking to build a weight of small to medium size fish, if you have a big dinner table then there is room for more diners!

My eyesight isn’t what it was so I only fished at 9 metres and could loose feed by hand with the wind off my back. That 3/4 pint of casters went onto one line and I fed between 6 and 15 casters very frequently. When I put the larger amounts in the roach appeared to go off so I cut down on the numbers again.

I fed less expander pellet on another line 2 or 3 at a time and never had a bite over it.

To everyone concerned..

I ve posted how I fish. If anglers don’t want to do use that approach.. then Don’t! It aint compulsory but if people want to fish with micros and pots then I m sure there is a place for them too. Personally, I have no problem with liners and I m feeding 2-3 pellets every few seconds…IN THE SAME SWIM! This is how I fish and feel free to try it or alternatively.. stick to what you know.

Thanks for your help Giles – I appreciated it and I am sure that a lot of others have benefited as well.

I thought I would add to this topic again about a small match I fished last Wednesday.

The Venues was Stones on the Isle of Sheppy, somewhere I have never fished in the winter. The conditions were very cold with a hard overnight frost and north wind after the mild spell. The advice was to feed sparingly with a pot, if you feed a lot you will kill it, etc, etc. Target species were F1s and skimmers.

I adopted my catty feeding tactics of lose feed only with maggot several times a minute over two lines, getting through 3 pints of maggot in total. It was slow for the first hour but eventually the fish switched on to it and I caught steady the rest of the match. This worked a treat catching 37lb of mostly skimmers and a few F1s winning.

That is very interesting. I have tried feeding that frequently today and basically in the wind I just couldn’t do it! I don’t have too much trouble in the summer doing it in the summer UITW but with cold hands and wind pushing the pole, I found it just about impossible. Bait all over the shop!

Best of luck to those who have persevered and can manage it though!

I have on ocasions when the wind is difficult from the side I used rod rest for the pole on a very long bankstick just beyond the keepnet.

I wouldn’t use a bump bar or anything like that as I find they just get in the way!

I don’t think you need to feed super tight anyway as long as it lands in or around the right spot…..lol

Im fishing a windy exposed venue this Wednesday, I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers Nick. I suspect that my presentation was wrong yesterday as well. I fished far too light given the conditions. 0.5 grm when a gramme would have been better with the tow.