Scotland, England, Wales, NI…all part of great britain and the same country. Cameron is the elected, dubiously many would say, of great britain therefore he really has every right to comment…..end of the day the scots vote in the general election for westminster, scottish mps sit in westminster too, westminster is the ultimate seat of power in great britain, so will have the ultimate say.

As it is, polls put it that only 28% ish of scots favour independance anyway so surely he is doing all scots wanting independance a favour by promoting their cause due to angering more scots!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-big-question-what-would-happen-if-scotland-achieved-its-independence-432319.html

If the scots have a referendum on independence, I think the English should be included, only our question could be something like…

“Do you want to tied to a country who has a population that hates the English, who you subsidise, and who’s representatives in westminster can vote on, for example, education legislation for the rest of the UK, whilst they decide their own laws…”

Oh, and it’s full of midges. That must me in there somewhere 😀

@ herbie:

“well for the life in me i cannot see why that prat
Cameron has to interfere in Scottish affairs. what the hell has it to do with him when the Scots hold a referendum???.”

It’s “to do” with him beacause he is the Prime Minister of Great Britain and NI.

“as for the wording well if he didn’t want Scotland to run its own affairs, then why give them a parliament in the first place. “

He didn’t give them a parliament in the first, or any other, place. It was Tony & Gordon and the rest of the loony Labour cabal that you are so fond of. They boasted at the time that they had instituted it so that no single party could ever attain an overall majority! I guess they forgot to mention this to Salmond but having bendy Wendy as their leader up there helped the SNP immeasurably.

I can’t believe a card carrying labour supporter, even you, is ignorant of this FFS.

Anyway, I hope Scotland goes its own way, and takes its bloody Labour MPs with it – look at the mess they’ve made for us to pay for.

@caster rob wrote:

@ herbie:

“well for the life in me i cannot see why that prat
Cameron has to interfere in Scottish affairs. what the hell has it to do with him when the Scots hold a referendum???.”

It’s “to do” with him beacause he is the Prime Minister of Great Britain and NI.

“as for the wording well if he didn’t want Scotland to run its own affairs, then why give them a parliament in the first place. “

He didn’t give them a parliament in the first, or any other, place. It was Tony & Gordon and the rest of the loony Labour cabal that you are so fond of. They boasted at the time that they had instituted it so that no single party could ever attain an overall majority! I guess they forgot to mention this to Salmond but having bendy Wendy as their leader up there helped the SNP immeasurably.

I can’t believe a card carrying labour supporter, even you, is ignorant of this FFS.

Anyway, I hope Scotland goes its own way, and takes its bloody Labour MPs with it – look at the mess they’ve made for us to pay for.

I presume Labour are responsible for the Global Crisis too 😉

ALL problems must date from Labour being elected :rolleyes:

The Conservatives / Britain never benefitted from North Sea Oil 😀

Please god can the BBC send Alan Hansen back up to Scotland forever asap !

Herbie …… Salmond needs tackling , and the UK should remain intact end of.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

@caster rob wrote:

@ herbie:

“well for the life in me i cannot see why that prat
Cameron has to interfere in Scottish affairs. what the hell has it to do with him when the Scots hold a referendum???.”

It’s “to do” with him beacause he is the Prime Minister of Great Britain and NI.

“as for the wording well if he didn’t want Scotland to run its own affairs, then why give them a parliament in the first place. “

He didn’t give them a parliament in the first, or any other, place. It was Tony & Gordon and the rest of the loony Labour cabal that you are so fond of. They boasted at the time that they had instituted it so that no single party could ever attain an overall majority! I guess they forgot to mention this to Salmond but having bendy Wendy as their leader up there helped the SNP immeasurably.

I can’t believe a card carrying labour supporter, even you, is ignorant of this FFS.

Anyway, I hope Scotland goes its own way, and takes its bloody Labour MPs with it – look at the mess they’ve made for us to pay for.

I presume Labour are responsible for the Global Crisis too 😉

ALL problems must date from Labour being elected :rolleyes:

The Conservatives / Britain never benefitted from North Sea Oil 😀

Don’t know.

I was reporting a few facts pertaining to the original post, without going off-topic.

I find the Scotts to be perfectly balanced, they have a massive chip on both shoulders 😮

Surely the biggest question is how will the funding of Scotland and whatever is left will work if there is a break up. Right now, even though our economy is shot, we still have a pretty good financial ranking in the global economy, but dividing that into smaller portions will not help to maintain that status. The “divide to conquer” phenomenon will be all too easy to see if the split goes ahead, and the nations credit rating will go down the tubes accordingly. Then see what happens to the cost of borrowing, cost of living and international trade (c.f. Italy, Ireland, Portugal etc). If you think things are bad now, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

I’d personally like to go through with it and devolve ourselves of the Scots and get an English Parliament for the English, but as much as we like to bash the Jocks, Taffs and Micks (and vice versa), we need to put aside our xenophobic thoughts and feelings and come to realise that dividing the UK is NOT going to be a good thing.

Keep the UK United.

An awesome post Herbie.

I presume Labour see retaining Scotland in the Union as vital to their chances of every getting elected again at Westminster whilst I can only assume the Conservatives are bringing items like this to the fore to distract non Scottish voters / media from other issues. Self interest, self interest IMO. Irrespective as Herbie rightly states they are all corrupt irrespective of party allegiance.

@herbie wrote:

rob my son this may come as a surprise to you but! ive never voted labour in my life , and although a trade union member for 47 years my political funds go to charity by choice. ive never lived in a labour ward 100% tory. i think all MPs are bent, self seeking morons without exception. most answers ive read are what i expected but none so far take into account the feelings of the Scots. i expect they feel much like the Kenyans did in the 50s and the Indians in the forty,s, trapped we may think we are British but we mostly are English , and have no right to dictate to another nation , occupied by an English king many moons ago and raped of its assets by self seeking meme,s in Westminster. however you put it ,and whoever is to blame that great nation who have stood by us through thick and thin deserve the right to choose without interference from us.

You’re right, it does.

Every political opinion I’ve seen you express on here has been anti-Tory, including your latest factually incorrect one.

Perhaps you’ve never voted but have lots of political opinions?

You reckon we should take into account the feelings of the Scots – in much the same way as they take into account ours, hopefully.

I think you must watch Braveheart too often!

Anyway, at least all of the left aren’t suffering from self-delusion:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100129748/everyones-laughing-at-the-left/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Still some honest people about.

Long live Ed!

Has Alan Hansen been deported back over the borders yet ? 😮

Question time was interseting last night on this subject ……. i actually found myself agreeing with that jumped up prick Kelvin McKenzie for the first and only time !

I love the informed opinions……

A couple of points here – firstly as far as being funded by the Saxon sorry English that is a myth. The tax revenues from companies operating in Scotland (or its waters) such as oil and gas companies is not included in these often quoted stats as these are reported through businesses registered in London. In turn if you look at the stats we house a significant part of the UK’s nuclear deterrent and the cost for this are allocated to Scotland. Finally certain English counties receive more per capita than Scotland. It is a statistival issue and it get trotted out time and again.

If Jocks want to go for independence let them but first lets have a proper debate at least to recognise what our forefathers fought for i.e. the rights of small nations to determine their future…

@herbie wrote:

are what i expected but none so far take into account the feelings of the Scots. i expect they feel much like the Kenyans did in the 50s and the Indians in the forty,s, trapped we may think we are British but we mostly are English , and have no right to dictate to another nation , occupied by an English king many moons ago and raped of its assets by self seeking meme,s in Westminster. however you put it ,and whoever is to blame that great nation who have stood by us through thick and thin deserve the right to choose without interference from us.

So so true mate.

Civilised society has moved on leaps and bounds since the colonial times where slavery was allowed, petty thieves were sent to Australia, people were displaced from their lands due to their religion and husbands could rape and beat their wives etc.

People have to recognise that many native people were displaces from their lands in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, North America, Africa, Asia and Australia from invaders from many different Nations. Im my country Ireland we are still paying ground rents to absentee landlords who inherited these privileges from their forefathers hundreds of years previously.
The fishing rights in my local river are leased from such a landlord in the UK who inherited this right.

People deserve the right to determine their own destingy and independence through democratic mandate.

I don’t disagree with any of that herbie.

I was just making the point that you said Cameron “gave” Scotland its own parliament, which was totally erroneous.

Do you see that?

Another vote for the repatriation of Alan Hansen here.

A paradox re politicians. On umpteen issues you listen to politicians advocating devolution of decision making to a local level etc etc yet they still frequently do a 360 and support the EU or the Union etc.

I am fully in favour of scotland getting independance then the money obtained from londoners to bail them out yearly will be spent on londerners, the sooner they stop milking us the better imo, there is no love lost between the two nations we gave them a good beating years ago and theve never stopped winging, hopefully england will no longer sponser prats who play tennis then mouth off that they hate the english.

@herbie wrote:

i think there,s quite a few Scots who will point to north sea oil/gas and turn that argument right back at you.

another question i have . let us suppose Scotland is now independent. what happens to the Scots working in England and vice- versa ???. Scotsmen as non E/U members would have to apply for a work permit , and i assume the same would apply to the English. now that is a can of worms.

Except it isn’t really, as Alec Salmond and the SNP are about as pro-european as it gets, and would rather align themselves with the EU than the UK.

When I question/rib my jock mates about them hating the English, they say they don’t (I suppose they would as they live in England lol), but say it’s the English media they hate.
They hate the way everything is ‘londoncentric’.

I’m from Middlesbrough, and live in Norwich, so what makes them different to me?

Herbie, i have enjoyed your post so much i have finally worked out how to log back on 😀

So far as the little Englanders worrying about the likes of Andy Murray, and his Celtic cousins “hating” the English, i dont suppose he hates them any more than Spurs fans “hate” Arsenal fans Man Utd/Liverpool, Rangers/Celtic ect ect … no more than a bit of banter, and from recollection Murrays comments were football related, to the effect that he would support whichever football team happen to be playing against the England football team, i wouldnt get my knickers in a twist over them.

As for Scottish independence, if Cameron really doesnt want it, he probably really only needs to keep his mouth shut, at the last count we had more Pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs 😉 And i would guess at the next general election the Liberals will find themselves in much the same boat. Support for independance in Scotland went from about 28% to 40% on the news that the Tory leader was against it …. Billy Connellys comment abut being ” as popular as a fart in a space suite ” comes to mind.

@herbie wrote:

quite right rob . but i meant in the context that as a member of parliament he voted yes when asked re Scottish devolution.:

He wasn’t an MP when parliament was “asked” via Labour’s 1998 Scotland Act which was the enabler for devolution.

So he couldn’t have voted yes – even if he’d wanted to.

@Fred Davis wrote:

I am fully in favour of scotland getting independance then the money obtained from londoners to bail them out yearly will be spent on londerners, the sooner they stop milking us the better imo, there is no love lost between the two nations we gave them a good beating years ago and theve never stopped winging, hopefully england will no longer sponser prats who play tennis then mouth off that they hate the english.

Fred are you sure that is the case? I read discussion re whether we take from Scotland or give to them etc and I never seen a true calculation re revenue from Oil which I believe is approximately 80% Scottish. Hase Scotland had all the revenue from THEIR oil or have we like many others things used the revenue for something else?

Their oil?

It’s prospected from international waters, Scotland and Denmark being the nearest land masses to North Sea operations.

Without the R&D of the oil companies they’d have sod-all.

The oil isn’t going to last forever and when it runs out they will go the same way as the Greeks.

@caster rob wrote:

Their oil?

It’s prospected from international waters, Scotland and Denmark being the nearest land masses to North Sea operations.

I think that you will find, that under international convention, 90% of what is currently UK oil and gas, comes from Scottish water …

All that said, i would still think that Scotland would vote “No” … unless the Tory party gets their backs up. Mr Cameron would be better keeping his own council, at least until nearer the time, then he can come away with financial scare stories, that may or may not be true. I do think Cameron has the Union at heart, without Scotland Labour would never again be in power at Westminster, but i dont think he realises just how much the Scottish people [ in general ] despise the Tory party … he could be the SNPs secret weapon if he is not careful.

@baitchef wrote:

The oil isn’t going to last forever and when it runs out they will go the same way as the Greeks.

You invest the money from the oil to produce a stronger economy.

At the end of the day, Scandinavian countries has done quite well and are no bigger / better than Scotland.

Maybe the fact that the Scottish Independance issue would divert the publics attention from from the fact that we are about to go into recession and the governments economic policies are in tatters could be a major PR coup for Cameron and his media propaganda machine ? 😉

While one of the deficit-denying duo beginning to agree that you’re doing the right thing is an obvious cause for concern:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9014782/Ed-Balls-says-Labour-will-not-oppose-public-sector-pay-freeze.html

it doesn’t really justify “tatters” status.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100129917/ed-ballss-extraordinary-volte-face-he-now-says-we-are-going-to-have-to-keep-all-these-cuts/

Perhaps it’s a double bluff to wrankle Osborne:

Balls Adopts Osborne’s ‘Plan A’ Tells Fabians “There Is No Alternative”

I’m intensely interested in politics. Or, should I say, I was…

As far as I’m concerned, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, ….. etc, should all be put up against a wall.

If the Jocks, or anyone else, thinks that Scottish independence will really make a difference to their lives, then they are fools.

They’re (politicians) self serving scum.

Since the last election I have promised myself that I’ll never vote again.

Stuff ’em.

I shall look after me ‘n mine.