Mr Cochrane – Re-writing the rule book.

[TF_drawbag1967]

Read Giles’ piece in Match Fishing, am I the only one who thinks this guy is a complete one off.

Loose feed 3 swims with catapult, three or four times a minute.
0.16 Line
Size 16 Meat Hook
6mm Expanders
Don’t use small droppers.

And this is in Winter, _**k knows what hooks and line he uses in the summer.

I thought the whole idea of articles in Match Fishing Joe were to educate people especially the younger generation, some poor little sod is going to go to his local Commercial at the weekend fishing Giles’ methods and wonder why he sat there for 5 hours bite less.

Whilst I have total respect for Giles as an angler, and without question he is an innovator, the methods he uses are skills that have been built up over years and years of practice and good luck to him.

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

I like Giles articles its like anything Drawbag certain places will respond well to certain methods The place I fish its rock hard to get a bite on 0.10 with a single maggot the above mentioned would simply not work.

[TF_NathanWatson]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

Read Giles’ piece in Match Fishing, am I the only one who thinks this guy is a complete one off.

Loose feed 3 swims with catapult, three or four times a minute.
0.16 Line
Size 16 Meat Hook
6mm Expanders
Don’t use small droppers.

And this is in Winter, _**k knows what hooks and line he uses in the summer.

I thought the whole idea of articles in Match Fishing Joe were to educate people especially the younger generation, some poor little sod is going to go to his local Commercial at the weekend fishing Giles’ methods and wonder why he sat there for 5 hours bite less.

Whilst I have total respect for Giles as an angler, and without question he is an innovator, the methods he uses are skills that have been built up over years and years of practice and good luck to him.

What ya trying to say, if you respect him, why are his methods wrong for a poor little sod????????????

[TF_drawbag1967]

I do respect the guy, but he’s definitely re-writing the rule book.

[TF_NathanWatson]

Don’t get it mate, if it works for him, why shouldn’t it for anyone else? Not read it so don’t know what he’s feeding and how much. Personally, 0.16 is very light, I normally use 0.18 or 0.20 in winter!

[TF_drawbag1967]

Don’t take the _**s.

[TF_NathanWatson]

I’m not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????

[TF_drawbag1967]

Just cancelled my subscription to Match Fishing and taken one up with Sea Angler, apparently there’s a lot more finesse Sea fishing.

[TF_NathanWatson]

What are you on about???????????????????? What you’ve said makes no sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

It does if you fish the Commercials I fish, what I’m saying is you cannot expect to fish 90% of Commercials in Winter this way and catch a decent weight of fish, it takes a lot more than fishing line and hooks more akin to Cod fishing.

[TF_orexina]

I’ve seen Giles in action and he does produce the results. I think it would depend upon where you are fishing. Some places respond to putting bait in and some don’t. I feed a lot more than a lot of my fellow anglers and most of the time, not all, catch more. They also think I’m nuts.
The thing is try it. What if it works then you’re on a winner. If he’s giving all the info then you have to follow everything as it will be a package.

[TF_NathanWatson]

Did he say it works on 90% of commercials???????????? Or just where he goes? Have you tried how he fishes where you go? As I said the gear I use and win with in winter is heavier! Have you just moved to commercials from canals?

[TF_drawbag1967]

I fished a very well known Commercial down South last week and the only way we could get bites was on Maggot, 20 Hook, and 0.8 hooklength, you couldn’t buy a bite on 4mm expander let alone 6. I spoke to the guy after who won it, he had a shed load in front of him and he could only catch on maggot as well.

[TF_drawbag1967]

@NathanWatson wrote:

Did he say it works on 90% of commercials???????????? Or just where he goes? Have you tried how he fishes where you go? As I said the gear I use and win with in winter is heavier! Have you just moved to commercials from canals?

Whats the point of doing an article that only works at 1 in 20 fisheries.

[TF_NathanWatson]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

@NathanWatson wrote:

Did he say it works on 90% of commercials???????????? Or just where he goes? Have you tried how he fishes where you go? As I said the gear I use and win with in winter is heavier! Have you just moved to commercials from canals?

Whats the point of doing an article that only works at 1 in 20 fisheries.

Who says it won’t work elsewhere? And you haven’t answered my questions!

[TF_Jon W]

Each venue responds differently and if you can take a bit of knowledge out of each article you read, combine and practice those ideas with you own approaches then, over time, your skills and arsenal will only develop. It’s then a case of doing some research and narrowing done your options each time you go out, particularly somewhere new.

J

[TF_drawbag1967]

@NathanWatson wrote:

@drawbag1967 wrote:

@NathanWatson wrote:

Did he say it works on 90% of commercials???????????? Or just where he goes? Have you tried how he fishes where you go? As I said the gear I use and win with in winter is heavier! Have you just moved to commercials from canals?

Whats the point of doing an article that only works at 1 in 20 fisheries.

Who says it won’t work elsewhere? And you haven’t answered my questions!

(Moderated).

[TF_JohnH]

Drawbag, you are correct Giles is an innovator, very creative and perhaps is a one off. Who else would come up with things like hook in loop? The logic behind his apparent madness is that fish are often off deck and even in winter will suck in a bait that passes their nose. Hence no droppers. I have watched the fish in my pond all winter and they are never on the deck. When I have fed them they will not take any off the bottom, I guess its too much hard work for them, but they will suck in pellets that pass their nose. The reason he uses multiple swims is that you have to search the fish out as they will not come to feed, however the noise will make them move in to have a look. Giles take on line and hook size is that fish cant see it but can feel it once they suck food in hence his rigs are bolt type self hooking. It can look very crude but his results speak for themselves.

[tournament_pro]

Giles does articles in MF because he is different

reading the same thing every month would be boring, he gives food for thought and thinks outside the box

a lot of people take the (Modded) out of the HITL method, but personally its won me a fortune at times so i am glad MF publish his stuff

as for teacing kids bad habits etc, match fishing I think is typically aimed at as it says…match fishing and is read by a lot of good-top match anglers

if kids want to learn the basics then they should be reading improve your coarse fishing

im sure if MF started publishing articles on how to tie hooks and attach flaot rubbers etc youd be complaining too 😉

[TF_squatt]

drawbag1967 we’ve already had a run in over some info I gave on your skimmer rig post. (Moderated) end of.

Mind your Langauge.

[TF_drawbag1967]

I may be mate but this is a discussion forum, at least I’ve got the b******s to say what I feel.

[DaveHarrellParticipant]

tournament_pro wrote:

Giles does articles in MF because he is different

reading the same thing every month would be boring, he gives food for thought and thinks outside the box

a lot of people take the ____ out of the HITL method, but personally its won me a fortune at times so i am glad MF publish his stuff

as for teacing kids bad habits etc, match fishing I think is typically aimed at as it says…match fishing and is read by a lot of good-top match anglers

if kids want to learn the basics then they should be reading improve your coarse fishing

im sure if MF started publishing articles on how to tie hooks and attach flaot rubbers etc youd be complaining too ]

ER, we did over the past two issues! Haha!

[TF_NathanWatson]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

@NathanWatson wrote:

@drawbag1967 wrote:

@NathanWatson wrote:

Did he say it works on 90% of commercials???????????? Or just where he goes? Have you tried how he fishes where you go? As I said the gear I use and win with in winter is heavier! Have you just moved to commercials from canals?

Whats the point of doing an article that only works at 1 in 20 fisheries.

Who says it won’t work elsewhere? And you haven’t answered my questions!

(Moderated)

What are you on about (Modded)????????????

[TF_welshmagic]

One of the very best writers out there. Very informative stuff that really makes you think.
Keep it coming MF ~clap

PS- I’m still yet to meet a carp with a micrometer ~think ~naughty

[Anonymous]

Ok, lets think about this. Giles is attacking in a controlled way. Feeding 2-6 pellets in each swim on average 2-3 times per minute. He will up the feed if the fish are responding to more feed. He is not feeding a lot of feed if the fish are not responding. when feeding with a catty at distance. The feed is being spread over a meter area in each swim. It makes the fish in his swims work for there food. Its attacking but its controlled. The rigs he is using and the attacking feeding style he is using are positive. Thats the whole point to what Giles is saying. The results he gets are based on making the fish respond to what he is doing. Its not always going to work even on heavily stocked venue if the fish are not in his peg and refuse to come to his peg and feed. However, he is not going to win if the fish are not in his peg anyway.

A few pellets falling though the water in a spread out way. Are less likely to spook fish in his peg. Its the pile of feed in a tight area that have been fed though a cup that are most likely to back fish off and spook them. Once you hook one fish. Any other fish in the peg are spooked. Spreading the feed out helps to stop other fish from so easily being spooked. This means that Giles is able to build his swims and catch for longer. Think about it!

I can think of many situations where anglers have never known what is possible from there peg because they never put enough feed in to get the best out of the peg. A negative approach often puts a few fish in the net simply because there in the peg. However, if everybody feeds nothing and they fish negatively. Who wins? The answer is. The angler who draws the best peg. Giles gives himself a chance. Thats yet another point that Giles is attempting to get across in his articles!

drawbag1967, i, ve been a regularly match angler fishing in one of the most difficult areas of the country for many years. I catch plenty of fish and i dont often fish negatively. I dont use micro,s in winter. I often feed with a catty. I also catch on paste in winter! If you took that stupid pole cup off your pole and fed your peg correctly. You might give yourself a better chance to compete from a lot more pegs than only a flier!

[TF_drawbag1967]

TrueBlue – At last some valid points, but I fish 3 well known Commercials regularly in the South and I have never seen anyone feed with a catapult in Winter not unless they’ve got a shed load in front of them.

[TF_Paddy]

Drawbag/Nathan, There is some good stuff in here and there are good comments from others as well. Please leave the hand bags, name calling and swearing out of it.

[Anonymous]

What venues, drawbag1967? Giles has fished many of the main venues down South with good results. He (Giles) might even give you some advice on those venues and if he feels his ideas would suit your venues. He is a member on this forum and is often happy to give help and advice if treated with respect.

[TF_welshmagic]

Another point worth considering was that it was only a few (10 maybe) years ago that anyone using sweetcorn in winter was seen as mad. Similarly pellets were seen as a ‘summer bait’ at first,and the idea of using hard pellets during the colder months would have had you dragged off to the nearest asylum. Concepts change all the time,largely due to forward thinking anglers such as Giles who are prepared to think outside the box and rewrite the rulebook. When fishing the straight lead and hair-rigged corn for carp for instance,would you catch any more using 0.12 than you would on 0.22?

[TF_nick_the_2nd]

Drawbag what venues are you fishing in the south out of interest?

Ive not read the write up yet so cant comment on it but….

In my experience the open water venues down my way (South East) respond to positive feeding especialy if there are a good number of roach, skimmers or F1 in them. I will feed 3-4 lines which can be pole and often a waggler rotating around them to keep catching. I’m in AT this week demonstrating this style of fishing!!

If you think about is if you are feeding 3-4 lines with a catty and using a 3-4 pints of bait it is only around a pint on each line.

Most avoid this tactic as it is hard work learning how to use a catty while holding a pole, compared to sitting like a gnome with a pot on the end.

[TF_red_hydro]

@welshmagic wrote:

Another point worth considering was that it was only a few (10 maybe) years ago that anyone using sweetcorn in winter was seen as mad. Similarly pellets were seen as a ‘summer bait’ at first,and the idea of using hard pellets during the colder months would have had you dragged off to the nearest asylum. Concepts change all the time,largely due to forward thinking anglers such as Giles who are prepared to think outside the box and rewrite the rulebook. When fishing the straight lead and hair-rigged corn for carp for instance,would you catch any more using 0.12 than you would on 0.22?

Thats a very good point Gareth, I wouldn’t use anything lighter than an 0.21 hook length when fishing the straight lead, in my opinion it doesn’t make any difference fishing lighter other than been snapped

[TF_NathanWatson]

I asked innocent, sensible questions and got abused! And I never swore! Don’t know why I was moderated, what’s wrong with “weirdo”?~think

[TF_kingfisher]

Got to say you are coming across as very narrow minded, drawbag. How can you dismiss a method so quickly without having tried it yourself? Giles has seen it, done it and got the t-shirt so I’m more than happy to consider what he’s saying, give it a go and maybe modify it to suit my venues, if necessary. I fish commercials in the south and have seen several anglers using a catty during the winter, and to good effect.

A lot of new opinions/methods start off open to ridicule (e.g. method feeder, slapping, dobbing bread) but soon become just another method when people try them and catch fish, which is what we’re all trying to do after all!

Which venues are you fishing mate?

[Anonymous]

Poor Nathan! lol

[TF_NathanWatson]

Thanks mate, send me some free stonfos or dacron connectors to make me feel better!

[TF_Jon W]

I learned how to fish the long pole and feed accuratley on the old nene after sitting behind my ol’ mate Rupert Garner where we (well, he mainly!) sacked up on roach on the seed.

I now feed often in this way and if I could give two pieces of advice about feeding the long pole with the catty they would be 1) look at where you are aiming at and 2) practice hitting the spot you are aiming at!

J

(good spot Nathan!)

[TF_NathanWatson]

@Jon W wrote:

I was learned how to fish the long pole and feed accuratley on the old nene after sitting behind my ol’ mate Rupert Garner where we (well, he mainly!) sacked up on roach on the seed.

I now feed often in this way and if I could give two pieces of advice about feeding the long pole with the catty they would be 1) look at where you are aiming at and 2) practice hitting the spot you are aiming at!

J

You were taught, not learned mate!~naughty

[tournament_pro]

@red_hydro wrote:

@welshmagic wrote:

Another point worth considering was that it was only a few (10 maybe) years ago that anyone using sweetcorn in winter was seen as mad. Similarly pellets were seen as a ‘summer bait’ at first,and the idea of using hard pellets during the colder months would have had you dragged off to the nearest asylum. Concepts change all the time,largely due to forward thinking anglers such as Giles who are prepared to think outside the box and rewrite the rulebook. When fishing the straight lead and hair-rigged corn for carp for instance,would you catch any more using 0.12 than you would on 0.22?

Thats a very good point Gareth, I wouldn’t use anything lighter than an 0.21 hook length when fishing the straight lead, in my opinion it doesn’t make any difference fishing lighter other than been snapped

people say it doesnt matter what you use on the bomb, if this is the case, why stop at 0.21? why not use 0.5mm or heavier? that way if it went round the platform leg it still wouldnt break lol

[Anonymous]

Interesting you should say that about hemp, Jon W. Hemp was only seen as a summer bait for big bags of roach. However, someone thought outside the box and now there are not many top North West match anglers who dont use hemp in winter as part of the main attack on canals. Especially on rock hard canals like the Leeds Liverpool canal.

[TF_welshmagic]

tournament-pro, if you can find a size 16 hook that you can get 0.50mm line through the eye twice then let me know LOL

[TF_wightangler]

have to say i thoroughly enjoyed Giles article, style and the first part was very thought -provoking.
However, i don’t think potting in bait does result in a very tight area(which i agree if it did would mean fish banging their noses on it in practice) – try it in a clear lake – usually by the time the bait sinks it covers around a good meter given over 4′, also wind and tow affect rate of fall of particles and the first fish to venture near it wafts bits up and a feeding fish-even if timid will by it’s action spread the lot out.Even how you pot in will vary any top ups and increase the spread.
However, he does kake a good point about them being often happier midwater and a bit of cattying 3-4 pellets may make them more inquisitive/active. Mind you- the amounts he swears by seem extreme in winter but it seems to work for him on the waters he fishes- but like Drawbag(by the way it was a s.14 not s.16 he advocated) not convinced they’d work down here- unless all other methods had failed and even then- you can get a string of bites out the blue over or near where you’ve been potting in 3-4 pellets plus the same of maggots all day- and that seems too much just typing that.
I also think that the way different species feed and equally important how, what angles and what density or uniformity- fish can shoal for different reasons- carp usually mainly when they are cold and in certain spots- otherwise they seem pretty irregular and generally more groups of fish unless a few are feeding or show a preference for a certain area.
By the way-I hasten to add, these are only my observations- i’m sadly crap as a match angler partic. recently-lol.
Amazes me-like him- how often skimmers and carp are in pretty shallow area rather than deeper areas that you’d presume in winter.Again- this awful winter paste has still been worthwhile when you’d traditionally think of as summer bait.
Glad he’s back doing articles.

[TF_macky1]

well im still catchin carp on my local with 0.16, and a size 14 (yes 14)hook~clap
i dont find carp tackle shy

[TF_pr@ngler]

I think some people contributing to this thread fail to understand articles in magazines.

Articles in mags cannot be a perfect manual to catch fish in every venue on every day. Think of your own experience. You can sack up on one day and blank on another day using the same method, even in the same peg.

At best a magazine article can provide you with another way to think or another method to try, as a vicarious experience. But after that you have to know when and where to apply it, using your brain.

JohnH and I have had a days coaching with Giles and were both staggered by the way he thinks. We learned a huge amount and that will improve our fishing.

The other great thing about Giles is his approach to writing. He applies academic rigour and standards. He avoids churning out the same stuff again and again to make a few bob (Academics have a rude name for that).

Giles publishes when he has something new to say. It might not work every day, but it will be worth thinking about.

[TF_paulcarpenter]

giles is a very nice guy you can ask him anything, but hes even better at talking when hes in a pub in newquay bring it on giles next rounds on you

[TF_dave brittain]

It’s funny how people will sometimes jump on a bandwaggon when somebody questions a well respected angler and his theories. Is it such a bad thing, I don’t think so providing it leads to healthy debate.

I remember years ago reading an article about catching eels on the Witham shallow using a lot of bait and I’m not sure if it included floating casters too. If I remember rightly it was written by Tony Wood of Barnsley and Tony had a very good reputation.

I’d fished the Witham regularly in the RAF East Midlands league years before and excelled at catching eels. I’d also been framing regularly at Bonny Hale on the Stainforth and Keadby Canal with eel weights so it would be fair to say I knew what I was doing.

When I read the article I thought it was the biggest load of twaddle I’d read, however was it really?

With eels the key was to feed enough to have them queuing up but not to the extent when they were darting all over the place giving you liners while grabbing the biggest mouth full of maggots they could. Just like carp the key was to have just enough in your peg to attract more but give you proper bites without the almost unhittable ones that had many anglers tearing their hair out.

If it was carp, you’d shallow up and sack up, so in theory why wouldn’t it work with eels especially with those big barking swimmers, (the article was written long before commercials took off).

It was a thought provoking article and Tony may have well caught well shallow, however would I have done it or tried to emulate the way he fished in the article? Not a chance.

Why?

Because I had my own theories based on what worked for me. Tony’s thinking was radical to say the least and also went against the grain of how some of the other Barnsley anglers fished for eels but it was none the less a thought provoking article regardless of whether I thought it was twaddle or not.

Giles article does go against the traditional winter approach and although it’s unlikely that I’d approach any of my winter matches in the same manner I’ll put the article away in the memory bank just in case I’m faced with a venue or scenario where I think it might come in useful.

Chances are I’ll never use the same approach, however if I’m in a situation whereby somebody near me is feeding pellets in winter in a similar manner to what Giles has described and is catching when I’m not, I’ll be thinking that I know exactly what you’re doing and will change my tactics to suit.

As for the heavy lines and such, it’s mind over matter. I use a 0.14 hook length on the Wye in winter and a size 14 B611 and that’s just for the roach and dace. Part of being a good angler is knowing what you can get away with and not worrying about it because you know you’re right.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

I thought it was an outstanding article. The way I read it Giles was arguing we often target the wrong areas of swims heading for deep water where the fish are often least happy to feed. He was arguing the shallow areas warm up quicker and that we should be targetting thosde areas and that the fish often shoal up incrediblty tightly in winter that if you fish the right part of the swim then line diam / hook size are largely irrelevant. Indeed, you want to make sure you catch every fish you hook.

Can somebody tell me what was wrong with all that?

Seemed common sense to me ~think

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

I thought it was a decent edition this month

Still too many river articles

[Daddy BParticipant]

Giles has the success he has because he is not frightened to go against the grain, rather than following the herd. Having met him he is a surprisingly down to earth guy and very happy to chat and give advice. To slag him off because he has a different way of doing things is narrow minded to say the least.

On the other hand, if his methods are so ludicrous, get him down to your venues and open up a can of whupass on him ! Should be easy if he is so clueless !

[TF_drawbag1967]

At what point did I slag him off, what I said was the guy is a one off and that youngsters reading the article could be wasting there time trying to emulate his methods.

[TF_Gavin]

Who said you have to copy the article to the letter? The key is take out the pieces of info that work for you (and / or where you fish) and use them!

If pellet doesn’t work in the winter on your local, try it with maggot and so on!

If you have to point for point copy articles rather than think for yourself then you really shouldn’t be telling other people what they say is rubbish ~naughty

[TF_wightangler]

To be fair Drawbag to drawbag at least he questioned a premise of Giles article(although his added comment about ‘advice to younger anglers’ bit was, imo, illjudged ,inappropriate and rather unfair). However, because a respected angler has written something -then he certainly should’nt be slagged off generally for having the temirity to raise or question certain aspects of it.
Debate & questioning is surely what a forum is about?

I think Dave Brittain’s considered post puts matters and the article in fair and valid perspective.

I would bet that Giles would surely prefer to have his article debated and talked about as evidence that his articles have been widely read ,done their job and got people thinking.
Must also be a positive endorsement for DHP & DH for their mag as well.

[TF_herbie]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

Read Giles’ piece in Match Fishing, am I the only one who thinks this guy is a complete one off.

Loose feed 3 swims with catapult, three or four times a minute.
0.16 Line
Size 16 Meat Hook
6mm Expanders
Don’t use small droppers.

And this is in Winter, _**k knows what hooks and line he uses in the summer.

I thought the whole idea of articles in Match Fishing Joe were to educate people especially the younger generation, some poor little sod is going to go to his local Commercial at the weekend fishing Giles’ methods and wonder why he sat there for 5 hours bite less.

Whilst I have total respect for Giles as an angler, and without question he is an innovator, the methods he uses are skills that have been built up over years and years of practice and good luck to him.

read this several times and cannot see for the life in me what he said wrong??? the day when someone cannot question an article without redress hasnt come as yet. his question regards younger anglers bares thinking about. after all youngsters are easily disapointed when things go wrong.
i have fished against giles several times and always been hammered he fishes with total confidence in his methods which work for him. maybe angling would be better served if instead of rubbishing the questioner people write the reason why they differ much like dave brittain has, instead of one liners dismissing him as an idiot,which he clearly is not.

[TF_Joe Carass]

As wightangler has said, it is nice to hear feedback to a feature! It could be so easy to just do a feature on Kinder potting pellets to an island every month – but is that what our readers really want???

if even half of the readers learn something from Giles’ piece then that for me has been a great feature. because there is always going to be some people who won’t give his tactics a try(I for one would not be confident fishing in this manner, but i have given it a go)

a great thread and some great points raised!!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

@Joe Carass wrote:

if even half of the readers learn something from Giles’ piece then that for me has been a great feature. because there is always going to be some people who won’t give his tactics a try(I for one would not be confident fishing in this manner, but i have given it a go)

a great thread and some great points raised!!!

Thanks Joe I think you just answered my question in those last two lines, so if a quality angler like yourself can’t emulate Giles how do you think a young lad on the club circuit is meant to.

[TF_Joe Carass]

think its because im not a positive enough angler thats all! what works for one man might not work for another its just the same as any method! but you do have to get out on the bank and actually give it a go, otherwise you will never know!

[TF_kid_a]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

@Joe Carass wrote:

if even half of the readers learn something from Giles’ piece then that for me has been a great feature. because there is always going to be some people who won’t give his tactics a try(I for one would not be confident fishing in this manner, but i have given it a go)

a great thread and some great points raised!!!

Thanks Joe I think you just answered my question in those last two lines, so if a quality angler like yourself can’t emulate Giles how do you think a young lad on the club circuit is meant to.

Nobody is saying they have to copy him completely. The article displays the advantages of feeding with a catapult as opposed to using a kinder pot. This can make a massive difference to catch rates….

Would you use a kinder pot feeding for silvers in winter?

[TF_drawbag1967]

Totally agree it’s just the way the article was put across everything was geared towards being anti the norm.

[TF_MarcRodger]

Joe next months feature
PANTS ELASTIC.

[TF_Joe Carass]

Funnilly enought Marc….

[TF_drawbag1967]

If its written by Giles I bet he swears by taking out the elastic and keeping them up with braces.

[TF_NathanWatson]

Just read the article, or most of it! A lot of the things said on here are wrong! He used 0.16 line, not 0.14 as 1 bloke said, 14 hook, not 16, hard pellets, not expander and fed only 3 pellets at a time, 18 a minute that isn’t that much for a venue obviously solid with small carp!

[Anonymous]

Joe, i think it is your good self that took a number of match venues apart by dump feeding heavily with maggots. The other way around than what Giles is doing but in both cases very positive but controlled in feeding approaches. Him feeding little but very often while you where laying the table. In both cases. You are both feeding to create a swim full of confident feeding fish. Those being the theories behind both of the feeding approaches. On the wrong venues, wrong pegs or in the wrong conditions there is the potential to blow out and catch very little. The point being that in the correct circumstances both methods of feeding are deadly and both winning methods on a regular basis. The key thing to remember for others is that its match fishing and the aim is to win. You only get payed if you beat those around you and/or make the top few places in the match. Paying safe and being negative in your feeding approaches might give a good chance of a few fish in the net. However, to win regularly and with big weights. You have to take a chance and be positive or you become pools fodder and win very little.

[TF_Joe Carass]

TrueBlue – yea you’re dead right. The maggot approach is a belter. again that is a very different method to the norm and a lot of anglers wouldnt dare try it, but to keep winning we must all keep trying new things that may or may not put more fish in our nets!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

You have pm Joe.

[Anonymous]

I cannot leave you out Nathan. You won fishomania and almost won the title a second time by being very positive in your feeding approaches. Too positively in the second final. However, over 200lb to finish 2nd is not bad going. Wow! Point being that being positive gives yourselves a chance to win. While in each case different approaches tofeeding. In angling magazine articles. What is offered is the information to become more positive and to potentially win more matches or simply have more red letter days. The cost is to blow out from time to time. However, practice and understanding of what your attempting to do. Gives the angler the chance to make the right choices on the bank in future matches.

[TF_MarcRodger]

pAnTs

[TF_NathanWatson]

Ok Marc, you can have a pair, well used, £100 to shut you up!

[TF_MarcRodger]

Cool Thanks Y-ies please

[TF_Steve Lockett]

Nice little thread, and, as so many have said: it is healthy to have the debate and good that this article stirred it up.
I shot the article and did the first sub-edit on the piece after Giles had written it. I titled it Good Vibrations, and felt it summed up the main point of the article.
Giles really feels strongly that you need to get the carp going by dripping some bait onto the water and not keeping it tight.

There will always be a divide between those who feel they have to fish for bites and those who feel they have to maximise their chances of landing every fish. That, essentially is what we are debating.
For me, even after working with Giles and another ‘beast’, Will Raison, who very rarely goes below 0.20 for carp, I get more success and am more confident dropping to 0.12 in the winter.

My first thought on reading the thread was: here’s another like when I was criticised for quoting an angler exactly in an article in Pole Fishing. (Les Thompson told me he tasted baits and only used them if he liked them. A regular poster on here said that was rubbish and shouldn’t have gone in the article.)

Sometimes makes you think why bother telling the reader exactly what the angler is doing or saying, when a lot of readers will then criticise it or claim we are distorting the truth. But on balance, I feel we can only tell it as it is and let readers debate, decide and possibly learn or disgard.

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

I Like the articles from Giles and Kim Milsom in particular, because they remind me of the basics principles. I think sometimes we are all a bit guilty though our search of knowledge to over complicate things unnecessarily.

[TF_Fred Davis]

just read the opening statement “Giles takes a completely different tack at monmouths redhill fishery”, obviously Giles tactics work at monmouths,however the tital suggests these are the tactics Giles uses on that fishery, nothing wrong with the tactics as far as I can see they obviously work on that fishery, I don’t think Giles is saying that it will be a winning method on every fishery! In fact Giles says that he employs these tactics on most fisheries that he fishes, not all the fisheries!In fact like most anglers I think we all tend to be selective where we fish especially in the winter months, I think that says it all, Giles is a very good angler at lots of methods and a damn fine fellow to boot. I think to many anglers read an article and consider it to be the answer to there prayers, it’s like they have found the holy grail, the same anglers also beleive in a magic groundbait formulas,
top anglers have secrets, and that they always draw a duff peg! nuff said, it’s just an article about fishing giving a different approach to fishing in winter, which is why Giles written work is so readable.

[Anonymous]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

TrueBlue – At last some valid points, but I fish 3 well known Commercials regularly in the South and I have never seen anyone feed with a catapult in Winter not unless they’ve got a shed load in front of them.

I won a match last sunday it was hard I fed about 4 maggots via catty twice a minute, I had 7lb 11 and 2nd place had 5lb odd all roach.
I probably fed 2-3 times what anyone else fed, maybe I had more fish in my swim I don’t know but don’t be afraid to use a catty in winter, NEXT time your really struggling give it a go what you gotta lose?????

[TF_Chris GrantParticipant]

I have known Giles more years than I care to remember – we fished the same circuit when I was a h alf tidy match angler – these days I am not even half tidy I am rubbish but there we are.

The point is that I have seen Giles fish a number of local venues and one in particular, woodstock in newport is a hard venue, usually 25 to 30lb is enough to win or at least frame.

His record there is second to none – he inavriably, but not always fishes pellet long and he is continually pinging 2 or 3 pellets and lifting and dropping. so the article is not just about fishing some overstocked puddle, incidently neither is redhill i struggle enough there – as I say these
days I struggle anyway, senility and general old age

[mak]

if it works it works him dont knock it till you have tryed it

[TF_herbie]

@TrueBlue wrote:

Joe, i think it is your good self that took a number of match venues apart by dump feeding heavily with maggots. The other way around than what Giles is doing but in both cases very positive but controlled in feeding approaches. Him feeding little but very often while you where laying the table. In both cases. You are both feeding to create a swim full of confident feeding fish. Those being the theories behind both of the feeding approaches. On the wrong venues, wrong pegs or in the wrong conditions there is the potential to blow out and catch very little. The point being that in the correct circumstances both methods of feeding are deadly and both winning methods on a regular basis. The key thing to remember for others is that its match fishing and the aim is to win. You only get payed if you beat those around you and/or make the top few places in the match. Paying safe and being negative in your feeding approaches might give a good chance of a few fish in the net. However, to win regularly and with big weights. You have to take a chance and be positive or you become pools fodder and win very little.

quality post thank you~clap ~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_Fred Davis]

well said herbie, many anglers fish for teams and they approach a match in the same manner as they normally fish, fishing for points instead of going for it, the problem is that you can get into a rut fishing this way trying to eek out a win instead of going for it, I remember fishing a winter leaque on the thames at donnington which I won mainly due to drawing one of the bream pegs, I was banging them out on the feeder however those around me in the main fished the long pole, I asked the chap at the next peg why he wasn’t on the feeder he said I’m fishing to team orders.In fact I couldn’t critisise his decision as he came second in the match by catching a few bream on the long pole however to my near 50 lb catch I think he had 15 lb, I still to this day smile at his rigid approach which in truth handed me the match and an area of river that no one else fished.

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Positive can work at any time. I cannot remember if it was one of the then Tri-Cast Highfield lads or Saints lads (Gary Whalley springs to mind) that always argued in tough conditions it was far better to target a single bonus fish rather than pairs of eyes.

However, as Fred states, Team Orders often state otherwise.

For me Giles is very much about using the constant vibration of bait hitting / entering the water and fishing at the optimum depth of water for the fish. Both make a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

The problem with most people they think uitw is 2 inches to 2 foot deep, when actually it’s 2 inches all the way to 2 inches off the bottom.
If your using your catty to feed it’s almost always best starting on the deck then if missing bites come up 2 inches at a time till you connect with fish, and you have to follow them all day unless you can get your feeding perfect.
Today I won a match with 19lb of silvers and I would say 75% of them were between 2 inch off botton and 10 inch off bottom the rest were on the deck, I “think” everyone else was on the deck.

I think some people are knocking Giles as they are not in tune with where the fish are they go from on the deck then if they go uitw they start at 2 ft deep and come up and MANY times are fishing above where all the feeding fish are

[TF_punchcrumb]

Sorry to say i weakened and bought this copy of MF first angling publication of any description i have bought this year and i used to buy a lot, angling times a life time of reading.
New years resolution was to keep the cash in my pocket.
Have to say the edition of MF took me about half an hour to read[ well i dont read the advertisement content] and its another vote for pants from me i am afraid.
Sorry if anyone is offended by my views but thats the way i feel and i think it might be some time before i weaken again~think

[TF_iansi01354]

For what its worth I reckon you fish negative and you will rarely blank but rarely win unless you draw on a shedfull.

I think fishing positively will result in more red letter days but more blow outs as well…..

……if you can deal with the extremes go for it but be prepared to fail, knowing you went for it rather than be an also ran!

Opinion over now where’s my micro toss pot….er I mean my whopper dropper catty….err can’t decide…..feed nought or shovel it in and thats the difference between the best anglers they sort the feeding out!

[TF_drawbag1967]

@paul1962 wrote:

@drawbag1967 wrote:

TrueBlue – At last some valid points, but I fish 3 well known Commercials regularly in the South and I have never seen anyone feed with a catapult in Winter not unless they’ve got a shed load in front of them.

I won a match last sunday it was hard I fed about 4 maggots via catty twice a minute, I had 7lb 11 and 2nd place had 5lb odd all roach.
I probably fed 2-3 times what anyone else fed, maybe I had more fish in my swim I don’t know but don’t be afraid to use a catty in winter, NEXT time your really struggling give it a go what you gotta lose?????

I won a match today mate with 32lb of Skimmers, Roach and Bream, never picked up the catapult once, nuff said.

At least my opening comments (which have obviously been mis-read by some people) livened up the discussion board.

And I’m looking forward to my Sensas goody bag Joe for upping the circulation on Match Fishing, lol.

[TF_Johnny Mac]

“I won a match today mate with 32lb of Skimmers, Roach and Bream, never picked up the catapult once, nuff said.”

Looks like you’re still missing the point??

[Anonymous]

32lb of fish is great. It might have even been a bigger weight if you had fished your peg with an open minded approach and tested the peg for its potential in a controlled way. However, you could have also messed things up. We will never know what was possible because you where not prepared to try something different but a win is a win. So,well done, drawbag1967. I hope i draw next to you a few times in the future with your narrow minded approaches to feeding.

[TF_herbie]

if fishing was so easy that one method was the RIGHT method everywhere we fished.~think ~think ~think i would,nt go~shh

[TF_iansi01354]

@herbie wrote:

if fishing was so easy that one method was the RIGHT method everywhere we fished.~think ~think ~think i would,nt go~shh

Absolutely bang on there Herbie…..think how much less tackle we would need though!!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

@TrueBlue wrote:

32lb of fish is great. It might have even been a bigger weight if you had fished your peg with an open minded approach and tested the peg for its potential in a controlled way. However, you could have also messed things up. We will never know what was possible because you where not prepared to try something different but a win is a win. So,well done, drawbag1967. I hope i draw next to you a few times in the future with your narrow minded approaches to feeding.

I’ll pick up the catapult when I feel the time is right, and the middle of winter is not the right time.

[TF_MICK THE BOOKIE]

Have you noticed how popular this thread has been?.Any topic with a hint of criticism has us all baying on the bit.Also it seems,as i have mentioned before,anything our Nathan gets involved with causes much debate and interest,and can only be a plus for our site…..Bring it on lads.
A great thread,so many thanks to you all for your contribution.
Well done Luca for starting it.I bet you didnt know you were dowsing the “Firey Forum” with petrol. ~clap ~clap ~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_Steve Lockett]

I appreciate that you enjoy reading Giles’ pieces and accept that he has ‘his way’ of fishing.

@drawbag1967 wrote:

I thought the whole idea of articles in Match Fishing Joe were to educate people especially the younger generation, some poor little sod is going to go to his local Commercial at the weekend fishing Giles’ methods and wonder why he sat there for 5 hours bite less.

To answer your specific point about what magazines are there for, or what this kind of article should be doing I will go through the process which led to this article appearing.

Dave Harrell asked me to draw up a list of possible articles I could shoot for him.
In my list, I included a piece about fishing short and/or in shallower water than most people accept for winter carp fishing. I already knew Redhill would be the venue and would benefit from some exposure and that Giles would be the best angler.
I approached Giles to see if he wanted to do the job. He said yes, but felt that feeding was a far more important aspect of the article than fishing short or into shallow water.
I told Dave when we would be shooting, and that the article would be called Good Vibrations, and be more about feeding with a catty when it is cold.
We shot the job, Giles wrote it and sent it to me. I edited the pictures to give Dave a selection to illustrate Giles’ words and gave the article the title and a small amount of edit to make Giles’ point of view more clear.
I emailed Giles back to make sure I had not altered any of his intentions and when he was satisfied with the finished piece, I sent it all to Dave.
Dave selected the photos you see and made a couple of tiny changes to the piece to better fit ‘house style’.

So, who should have altered the piece to make it more suitable for younger anglers? I am certain that had I or Dave done that, the magazine would stand accused of not accurately showing Giles’ point of view or way of fishing.
Giles was at pains throughout the process to state that there is no point him doing something or showing something that he doesn’t actually do.

Surely the ‘point’ of this kind of magazine article is to show how a successful angler goes about an aspect of his fishing?
As I posted previously, it is up to the angler to decide how much of the information they want to take on the bank with them. The age of that angler/reader is immaterial unless the article specifically targets that age group.
It could well be argued that Match Fishing does not specifically target ‘younger readers’ as they are far less likely to be involved with serious match fishing.

Funnily enough, it was at Redhill a couple of months earlier that I listened to (stood and took?) a 10 minute harangue about how magazine articles and films never really show you the ‘truth’ about an angler’s success. Same old on that front and no point trying to argue with him, but goes to show that you can never please all the people all the time.

[TF_red_hydro]

I was seceptical of what Giles had written in this months match fishing mag.

However I was lucky to have a days fishing with him on Saturday just gone at a place called Cefn Mably near Cardiff.

I fished my way, and the Giles way. The Giles way totally outfished my way of pellet fishing in winter.

I would try it before you diss it.

He doesn’t say it will work on all venues, but he likes to fish this method on pools and lakes rather than snake lakes

[TF_nick_the_2nd]

drawbag1967 I asked the question far back in this thread what venues in the south are you fishing as I would like to know?~think

[TF_NathanWatson]

@nick_the_2nd wrote:

drawbag1967 I asked the question far back in this thread what venues in the south are you fishing as I would like to know?~think

I’d like an answer to all my questions too mate but I won’t hold my breath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

Wish I’d never started the thread, I’d just like to say if you’ve got an opinion keep it to yourself cos your p

---

in the wind on here.

[TF_nick_the_2nd]

I’m just curious to the venues you fish, especially as you said you don’t see anybody feeding with a catty?

If you are fishing snakes or similar then to a certain extend I can understand negative feeding tactics but they don’t make sense to me on open water venues when you are fishing to win.

[TF_NathanWatson]

@drawbag1967 wrote:

Wish I’d never started the thread, I’d just like to say if you’ve got an opinion keep it to yourself cos your p

---

in the wind on here.

What’s wrong with ya???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TF_drawbag1967]

Sorry Nick, no can do for obvious reasons.

[TF_herbie]

steve lockett ~clap ~clap ~clap spot on.
good article by giles, and the lad was right to raise his concerns in an open forum. you must by now realise you cant please everyone all the time. but keep the faith ~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_tewton]

Fair enough a public forum is here to encourage debate but to say @drawbag1967 wrote:

I thought the whole idea of articles in Match Fishing Joe were to educate people especially the younger generation, some poor little sod is going to go to his local Commercial at the weekend fishing Giles’ methods and wonder why he sat there for 5 hours bite less.

is way over the top imho.

More articles from Giles in Matchfishing mag please ~clap and I’ll decide if I want to employ the tactics, at least they are a breath of fresh air compared to most of the product placement crap around these days.

[Anonymous]

drawbag1967 said Sorry Nick, no can do for obvious reasons.

drawbag1967, stating the venues that you match fish is unlikely to identify you. Even if that info did identify you. Whats your problem? If you stay within the rules of this forum and respect others views. Then why would you have an issue with being identified? It sounds like you need to grow a pair, mate.

Its a discussion and not an argument. Some good stuff has come out of this thread. The main thing being a very good thread regarding different types of feeding. Something that is probably the least understood subject in angling and the least discussed on forums or for that matter fully discussed in articles in angling magazines! So, stop taking things so personally!

[TF_punchcrumb]

Might be a tad off topic but forget giles yawn boring article and bypass all the adds and crap, turn to the last but one page and have a lttle chuckle at Stans column it made me smile best page in the mag by a country mile although that said there aint much to beat.
Wonder if Stan has decided to give the commies a miss from now on rofl~clap

[TF_bramParticipant]

great article great thread/discussion

drawbag1967-dont knock it until youve tried it

[TF_drawbag1967]

Read it mate, I started the bloody thing.

[TF_punchcrumb]

Not even a nibble~naughty

[TF_punchcrumb]

@bram wrote:

great article great thread/discussion

drawbag1967-dont knock it until youve tried it

couldnt agree more worth the exorbatent cost just for stans column~think ~clap ~naughty

[Anonymous]

lmao only just read this thread, whose this drawbag1967 anyway? Lets come on here and slag some of the finest anglers in the country off for providing an opinion. If you don’t like don’t do it, easy.

Giles is a good friend friend of mine and he has a saying “innovate not imitate” I think that says it all really.

[TF_DanJones]

Am i missing something here? A carp is a carp is a carp. Why would it only work on certain venues? Kinder potting works on every venue, so why wouldnt this?

Keep an open mind i say.

[TF_Paddy]

Ton-Up!

[Tubbs Tubson]

Remember that Giles is talking about “open-water” swims in his article…

We had a similar discussion on MFS regarding the very same methods, and what struck me was the ignorance of this very fact….open water swims are generally tackled in a very different way to open-water pegs.

Put your pots away lads and get pinging…you know it makes sense…~clap

[TF_NathanWatson]

@Tubbs Tubson wrote:

Remember that Giles is talking about “open-water” swims in his article…

We had a similar discussion on MFS regarding the very same methods, and what struck me was the ignorance of this very fact….open water swims are generally tackled in a very different way to open-water pegs.

Put your pots away lads and get pinging…you know it makes sense…~clap

Open, open, eh???????????

[Author]

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