Alex Bones Editorial, January’s Match Fishing.

[TF_badgerParticipant]

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Opinions please, mine is he should sit down and grow up a bit, by slagging of the majority(his word) of angling forum users, he’s also addressing DHP readership who pay his wages. One of his statements suggest that folk come on sites like this to moan about products etc, and that they should go to the manufacturer etc. Well I reckon I’ve a valid point to make so I’m going to complain to his employer and let them know I was offended by this editorial and recommend that it is retracted and a apology is submitted.
This is just my thoughts so I look forward to hearing other peoples opinions.

[TF_macca63]

I think the point Alex was trying to make is that there are a large number of people who are quick to jump on the bandwagon and slag something off on forums before they are in possession of the full facts or look at the reasons why something doesn’t work as they expect it to.

In the case of the banjo feeder he was merely suggesting that it could well be a case of user error rather than poor product design on Prestons part however people are quick to judge and write something off before trying it just because they have read something on a forum.

[TF_craigm]

I for one will be complaining to DHP and won’t be buying another copy until an apology is printed.

If he doesn’t like that people give negative reviews of products, he wants to try giving some realistic reviews in the magazine. Instead they say everything is brilliant to keep their advertisers happy, who to be fair have more pages dedicated to them than actual articles.

Rant over. :p

[TF_badgerParticipant]

Macca63 My point is that he appears to be labelling us all. I look at products or innnovations(pardon the pun) and think to myself will that improve my fishing. Then I may try them to see if they work for me and if they do I will give an opinion if they don’t I keep my opinions to myself. What got my goat is that Alex referred that the majority, most or everyone is wrong with society I feel that this is way ott and in my case and many others on here is not true

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

My opinion is, they dont want people to have an opinion,they need to grasp what real anglers ( internet forum users ) say and use this information wisely its first hand info !!! like the feedback or not its got to be usefull, Badger Ive read that piece and I think he may be “biting the hand that feeds him ” so to speak. My opinion is is there losing magazine sales, this happens they need to make their articles more interesting and not have ago at everyone that still supports them, not rocket science, Pole fishing December was a cracking read.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Can’t have the proles going “off-message”.

Interrupts the revenue stream.

Tut tut.

[TF_badgerParticipant]

Caster Rob I totally agree

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

(Rob) Listen to George Orwell here, Put it in laymans terms man, theres only the odd few on here understand you !!!!

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Anthonywaters wrote:

(Rob) Listen to George Orwell here, Put it in laymans terms man, theres only the odd few on here understand you !!!!

I’m busy enjoying single malts right now.

Maybe Squealer could deputise?

[Anonymous]

Oh dear alex, I would just like to say that i totally agree with your article and think that youre pretty brave to have a go, but, its easier to sit on the fence mate and bite your tongue, the british public dont like being told and will defend what they have said, even when theyre wrong.
I think youre on a no win situation and therefore would be better to say nothing…After all isnt the customer always right???

[TF_evolution]

Never hear of him winning any major match events. So what does he exactly do.

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

I dont think hes a match angler, he looks like a hairdresser !

[TF_Gavin]

I haven’t read the editorial, but there are plenty of keyboard warriors who type before they think!
Case in point is a recent “rip off” thread (was it here or elsewhere??), better to have contacted the relevant app provider, just branding it a rip off instead isn’t exactly the way to get people to help you!

If he’s tarred everyone with that brush then it is wrong, but I can fully understand how it would get your goat up. It could prove a risky move when printed media is struggling…

[TF_evolution]

I wonder what he thinks to Steve ringer using the forums, anyway how many blokes do you know that styles their hair before a days fishing, he just absolutely loves himself. What he said about forum users was out of order. It’s probably because people prefer to use forums for advice rather than buy his magazine which would lose sales.

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

I think there are two problems here which are connected.
The first is that we all know that magazines cannot print 100% honest reviews about bad product. It’s counter productive anyway… and if they did they would fall out with manufacturers some of whom advertise and therefore pay the bills.
The second is that anglers want a voice but sometimes go too far on forums, and the manufacturers understandably hate that and therefore don’t like the forums that allow it. Believe me I know this all too well.
I have always tried to give anglers a voice on this site but I’m not sure it’s got me anywhere other than trouble from the industry and a reputation for the site.
The place to get really honest reviews is on the BBC (eg Top Gear), who don’t have advertisers to worry about.
Online people can chat properly about fishing product and exchange views, but some people always take it too far…
But for me honest appraisal of product is a worthwhile part of this forum IF people do it honestly and without malice… it prompts debate and I know users always appreciate it when the manufacturers’ representatives come on and give feedback.
I have to say also that there has always been stacks of really positive product feedback here on TF which has massively helped sell a huge amount of product.
But my phone only rings when something negative is put on… and I think some people in the industry always forget the former.

[TF_macca63]

The internet is a powerful platform and the point is a lot of people believe everything they read on the internet forums whether its true or not and cant make their own minds up.

A case in point is the ‘Pole Compare’ website, the new Browning Z12 had 30 votes before the thing was ever released

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

That’s true Macca but it’s like any conversation with anyone about anything.
You choose who you believe and what you believe.

[TF_AndycarpcatcherParticipant]

I agree Geepster, but think magazines do a massive injustice to their readership by the obvious lack of credible product appraisal.

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

A big percentage is credible. They just don’t slag off bad product normally by not reviewing it at all. What would you do?

[TF_AndycarpcatcherParticipant]

Well perhaps they should review some bad products to try and maintain an element of credibility. Personally I have never seen a negative review so think reviews are irrelevant. Just another form of advertising. But I understand that the industry has to maintain itself and it has not the money of other industries with TV backing etc.

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day,i would be lost without my two monthly magazine issues…polefishing and match fishing. I always look forward to them coming thru my door and when they do i give a little ‘YESSSSSSSS’ its something for me to read in the bath that i thoroughly enjoy…i can honestly say that without the mags i would be lost and would have to buy the angling times instead which wouldnt last me an evening….keep up the brilliant work I LOVE THEM MAGS!!!!

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

@evolution wrote:

Never hear of him winning any major match events. So what does he exactly do.

why does he have to win major events?? but someone correct me if I am wrong….didn’t Alex win the ACA MAsters some years back?? and I know his old team ..Team Guru won the Team event two years running …I would not question his ability though… hes prob
ably one of the best Feeder Anglers in the country and that I have ever seen!!

Alex is a great angler …and like people on the sites is entitled to an opinion!!

http://www.malloryparkfisheries.co.uk/sniderumours/archiveview/80/

oh….and he won the Ivan Marks Memorial……

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

Yep, the jibe about his ability as an angler is miles of the mark and uninformed I have to say.

[TF_badgerParticipant]

Well said Geepster, digs at a guys angling ability or personal attacks are not needed.

[TF_billy the squidParticipant]

He must be pretty sharp too, as i bet jan match mag sells well!!

[TF_evolution]

Look,,,I wasn’t having a cheap shot but I do not know what he has done on the match fishing scene

[TF_wightangler]

Caster Rob posted;
”Re: Alex Bones Editorial, January’s Match Fishing.by caster rob » 25 Dec 2011, 00:47

Can’t have the proles going “off-message”.

Interrupts the revenue stream.

Tut tut.”

pmsl 😀

Absolutely Spot On !!!!!
Despite our polemical differences, 😮 I wholeheartedly endorse your wry – yet exceedingly well made observation, 🙂

[TF_GLEBE1]

geepster wrote:

I think there are two problems here which are connected.
The first is that we all know that magazines cannot print 100% honest reviews about bad product.

So why can’t DHP just cut the crap and call them adverts instead?????
I can’t see why they would have a pop at forum users when they can’t be straight with readers when reviewing kit!

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

The policy in most consumer magazines I know about Glebe (and not just fishing) is simply to refuse to review something that you think isn’t up to scratch, but instead to go back to the manufacturer and tell them as much… This way you use the limited space available to tell people about product that you recommend, and don’t waste it on product that you don’t. Also the manufacturers appreciate this policy….

[TF_TIDALWAVE1]

@geepster wrote:

The policy in most consumer magazines I know about Glebe (and not just fishing) is simply to refuse to review something that you think isn’t up to scratch, but instead to go back to the manufacturer and tell them as much… This way you use the limited space available to tell people about product that you recommend, and don’t waste it on product that you don’t. Also the manufacturers appreciate this policy….

There is also the problem of manufacturers not taking kindly to criticism,constructive or otherwise about their products,especially with the heavy advertising that fills many magazines.and many reviews can be biased towards certain brands or products as well,so the review is not always 100 percent honest for everyones benefit,just personal comments.

[TF_markc]

Taken from the Match Fishing online review for Matrix rods:

“Most of you will know or know of Ricky, but for those who don’t he’s been a formidable name in the trade for many, many years. And, he’s responsible for a great deal of the developments that present themselves before your very eyes when you visit your local tackle shop”

This is typical of the restrictive nature of reviews, it should have read IMO
“Ricky Teale, formerly of Preston Innovations”
Obviously best not to mention a rival manufacturer in the review.

[TF_Swimfeeder]

I have not read the editorial concerned, but I have witnessed on this forum and others, a great deal of ill informed and malicious comment on many ,many angling products over the years…….so perhaps Alex Bones has a point? I am not offended by his observations……hardly surprising though as I have not slagged off products I know ..ck all about.

Do anglers really need to come on to these forums and use “advice” from complete strangers??? who moniters their angling abilty? it has been known for complete novices to offer opinion/advice on product…..more worringly, people are prepared to take it as gospel! 😮

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

ive read every single one of the replies and i get both sides of the argument, but theres one thing i just cant get my head around !!!

“why is it, when you think you put your hand in dog poo,, you always have a really close sniff to confirm it” ?

:rolleyes:

[TF_GLEBE1]

Swimfeeder wrote:

Do anglers really need to come on to these forums and use “advice” from complete strangers??? who moniters their angling abilty? it has been known for complete novices to offer opinion/advice on product…..more worringly, people are prepared to take it as gospel! :eek:[/quote

I haven’t taken Alex’s comments personally its just an opinion,he was a regular at Mallory for a good few years and I’ve fished alongside him enough to know he’s a decent sort, that said I don’t agree with anyone that writes off the crediblity of advice on these forums regarding tackle,experienced or not most people have parted with their hard earned and will comment on their purchase.

Lately there has been a few instances where people’s comments on the forums have been invaluable.

Just a few,
Preston V roller easily blown over
Glueing the peg in the (I think Steve Mayo) pellet wag adaptors
The Tourney 6 in 1 landing net handle snapping and threads falling off
The original Hydropult teething problems
Daiwa pole joints loosening
Map hooklength box foam issues
Preston powerline diameter
Preston neoprene boots splitting

These are all things that people have commented on you don’t have to take them for gospel but you can bear the info in mind when parting with your cash

One thing for sure though, you’ll never read about any of those problems in a mag!!

[TF_allyParticipant]

I wonder how some of his workmates feel about this, certainly Jon Arthur was a forum regular well before joining DHP. In fact I have always assumed that his endpeg musings got him his start.

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

Agree with you – you just have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[TF_Jimmy_bronze]

Firstly guys, all the posts on this tread are an excellent example of website forums and how they should be used!
Ok so on the first reading of Alex’s article I was slightly offended. However on review it is only something in the Editors piece; therefore it’s only their opinion and invariably meant to be slightly provocative to engage the reader. I doubt anyone buys the magazine looking for this insight, it’s merely an add-on. Of course it is down to the reader themselves whether they respect the editor. In my mind Alex is clearly a very good angler and well suited for many aspects of match fishing as it is today.
I was surprised, in places, at his language within his assessment – it is always dangerous (in my opinion) when discussing groups as a “majority”. Also I doubt the strong view that forums are an example of “everything that’s wrong with society today” (bit more complicated than that!) and in places he leans toward being ironic – “comments that poison the mind of the vulnerable”. However this is his choice on how to describe his viewpoint, effectively one opinion amongst many others out there and therefore shouldn’t be taken offensively.
Overall I would say fair play to Alex for going strong on something but he should have possibly thought about his language more. MFM included in its awards one for angling forums so it isn’t attacking angling forums overall. It’s up to us as individuals to stay open minded and to question everything to get the best out of any situation in fishing.

On a positive final note I thought interesting difference in award results in MF and PF magazines – especially in the runner up of the flagship pole. Not all construed towards product bias after all… or is it?! Ha ha! 😀

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

back on the subject of dog poo,
is it just me or has anyone else noticed yer dont seem to see white dog poo anymore ????

[TF_Serious Sam]

Lack of calcium from bonemeal in modern foods so no white poo.

Sometimes I wonder how I know some of the stuff i do 🙁

[TF_macca63]

Who was it said a few days ago that there was a lack of discussion on this website??

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Apparently:

“He states that most of the people posting “dont have the foggiest what they are talking about”.He goes on to say forums are a breeding ground for “literary bacteria” and are largely frequented by a minority who are “content to hide behind pseudonyms” to “poison the minds of the vulnerable”.

I don’t know why, but this attitude puts me in mind of a money-making scam a few years previous where the punter, when struggling to catch, was able to “phone a star” who would analyse his predicament and dispense words of wisdom to boost his prospects.

For a fee.

NB

wightangler:

Cheers.

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

caster rob wrote:

Apparently:

“He states that most of the people posting “dont have the foggiest what they are talking about”.He goes on to say forums are a breeding ground for “literary bacteria” and are largely frequented by a minority who are “content to hide behind pseudonyms” to “poison the minds of the vulnerable”.

I don’t know why, but this attitude puts me in mind of a money-making scam a few years previous where the punter, when struggling to catch, was able to “phone a star” who would analyse his predicament and dispense words of wisdom to boost his prospects.

For a fee.

NB

wightangler:

Cheers.[/quote

I have not read it Rob ….. so he states the word “MINORITY” ??

By reading some of the comments on this thread by the “MINORITY” they must already know who they are and that he’s talking about them?? 😉

Oh well ..never mind…still a great angler .. and a nice lad !! 😀

[TF_caster robParticipant]

I haven’t read it either.

I cribbed it from another site (that will obviously face legal proceedings if appropriate).

As well as using the word MINORITY he also uses MOST.

Besides proficiency in words beginning with M, what do you make of that?

Great angler!

Definition?

[TF_Gary]

Lots of anglers ARE anonymous morons who don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Why limit it to forum users?

A minority of them are even silly enough to pay £3 every month for 70 pages of adverts, 30 pages of re-hashed carp fishing articles and a b*ll sh*t editorial…

One piece of advice Bones would be very well advised to take on board: don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

[TF_NoCarpPlease]

Gary – go the whole hog – lots of PEOPLE are anonymous morons …..

Frankly – I haven’t bought more than a few issues of any of the mags in years …… I was always more interested in the story or diary type of article than the “how to” anyway. And whilst Lee Kerry is undoubtedly a super angler – his writing is not on a patch with Richard Wade or Rob Hewison (and many others like them).
Since competition fishing splintered to so many different styles and venues, along with a move to the “how to” type of article, I’ve found very little relevant to me in Match Fishing. The last decent series I remember was about a Browning Wickford team that were competing in some Essex leagues – entertaining and with some nice snippets of info to try out.

The forums – on the other hand – are great, just like having a debate in a pub …. you don’t learn much but they’re usually quite fun!!

[TF_larryteepot]

i love this bar….. 😀

[TF_duanepipe]

@Leaky Lloyd wrote:

back on the subject of dog poo,
is it just me or has anyone else noticed yer dont seem to see white dog poo anymore ????

had a bit of white tracix to it mate it. works on softend pellets it should work on shit!

[basshallParticipant]

why do you all not get a life and leave the man to do is job. you are all quick to have a go. but when you see him on the lake or river it is hi alex he is doing a good job there and long may he be there too. so what if he says things now and again that may not be to all liking but he will be good forn the magazine

[carp muncherParticipant]

sorry to say i wont be buying any guru stuff now
after the comment he made im going to stick with
preston innovation come on andy and tom

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

right heres my take on it,

i posted daft comments about dog crap cos the majority of yer where boring the pants off me ! :rolleyes:

bottom line, alex is right,
and the very fact this thread has been posted proves it,
i do know some of you who have posted so i aint having a pop at people i dont know,
those of us who are realists know that angling forums have there good points
e,i getting advice on methods, venues, general chit chat and organised days on the bank with like minded folk to name a few,

unfortunately, they have there bad points aswell 🙁

and right at the top of the tree are the tits who come on here and talk a load of pony and slag people down when they dont know jack about them or because they have a difference of opinion
and its because of these tits that there are quite a few top class anglers that wont give sites the time of day,
some of your posts make me cringe,
like what exactly does alex do cos he aint won anything ?
and who the hell are you mate, alan scothorne in disguise ?
when is it i would have heard of you and what are you famous for besides making silly comments like that ?

alex has done a lot for angling and after speeking to him a few times he strikes me as a stand up geezer who is always happy to help you where and when he can,

perhaps he should just swan about thinking he’s better than he is and spend his evenings sitting on here telling lads who are trying to help others that they dont know what they are talking about, or just randomly pull someone to peaces just because he’s got too much time on his hands ?

get a grip fella’s for christ sakes !!!!

yer the Norris Coles of total fishing

[TF_Kagger TNB]

“…perhaps he should just swan about thinking he’s better than he is…”

From the tone of the article, he’s doing that anyway.

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

Carp muncher, why wont you be buying anymore Guru? Alex left Guru in the summer to take a job at match fishing. So how does what Alex wrote in MF affect your view of Guru?

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

@Kagger TNB wrote:

“…perhaps he should just swan about thinking he’s better than he is…”

From the tone of the article, he’s doing that anyway.

and so he should,
he’s only saying what the majority of us are thinking,
forums are a breeding ground for keyboard worriors,, like it or not mate ! :rolleyes:

[TF_caster robParticipant]

“he’s only saying what the majority of us are thinking,”

Who are this majority, and how do you know what they are thinking?

[TF_Kagger TNB]

@caster rob wrote:

“he’s only saying what the majority of us are thinking,”

Who are this majority, and how do you know what they are thinking?

This majority Rob…

“…the majority of people who are posting dont have the foggiest what they’re on about”.

There can only be one majority surely?

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

cos this threads being talked about on other forums aswell as anglers gettin intouch on facebook and talkin about this and similar posts on the bank aswell mate !!!
and it seems its the people who fit snuggly into alex’s stereo type who are getting offended!
funny that !!!
im a forum user but i aint offended cos i agree with what he says,,

theres some top lads on here, but for every top lad theres a tit in the shadows !!!! :rolleyes:

[TF_caster robParticipant]

Thanks Kagger.

It must be them!

[TF_caster robParticipant]

“and it seems its the people who fit snuggly into alex’s stereo type who are getting offended!
funny that !!!”

As they are the ones he’s criticised I dont find this surprising.

I still don’t see anything that constitutes a majority, just individual opinions.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

its gettin boring again,,

come on, lets make things interesting and talk about dog shit again !!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p 😀

[TF_Kagger TNB]

I didn’t like the article, but TBH it’s not as tho’ anybody’s died is it?

I didn’t see the thread he refers to in the article, but it was only about a feeder wasn’t it?

Who knows why he thought he should get involved at all?

Aren’t forums about free speech? Aren’t they just an extension of the banter and discussion at a match?

Moaning about a thread on a forum was IMO ill advised. People will voice their opinions about anything an everything, and he had absolutely nothing to gain by writing an article with such a tone.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

caster rob wrote:

“and it seems its the people who fit snuggly into alex’s stereo type who are getting offended!
funny that !!!”

As they are the ones he’s criticised I dont find this surprising.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

so let me get this right,, alex is exposing the tits for what they are ?
and in turn the tits, are aknowledging they are infact tits, by being offended,,,,,,,, errrrrrm ??? for being called tits ???

yer losing me now??????

duanepipe, what where you saying about making white dog poo using tracix white dye me old mucca ? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

and for the record,

“BANJO FEEDERS ARE SHITE”!!!!!!!

😉 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[TF_caster robParticipant]

“so let me get this right,, alex is exposing the tits for what they are ?
and in turn the tits, are aknowledging they are infact tits, by being offended,,,,,,,, errrrrrm ??? for being called tits ???”

I didn’t know he’d exposed anyone, I thought he’d just insulted them.

Are you suggesting that these are the only people to have taken offence?

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

duanepipe,
ive tried the tracix on dog poo mate,,
dont make it look like good old fashioned white dog poo 🙁
makes it look more like a festive chocolate log :rolleyes:

stick a merry christmas sign and a sprig of holly on it and its a dead ringer !

:p 😀 😀 😀 😀

[TF_redarmy]

why would people be talking about this thread on here its no different to the threads on mfs and talk angling ?

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

@redarmy wrote:

why would people be talking about this thread on here its no different to the threads on mfs and talk angling ?

Didnt this thread originate on here, I genuinely dont know if it did or not that is a question, i only visit this site,I know its been interesting reading and 3000 + views

[TF_One Out of the Frame]

Taking on board a lot of points and also, with the benefit of age, experience and hindsight: Alex et al should at least realise that the reaction of the readership, perhaps not as eloquent or learned, poses some disquiet that needs addressing.

In my humble opinion, the angling press have become cosy bed partners with the manufacturers and the very reason that constructive reviews are now seldom seen is as good a reason as any for me to not buy the magazines anyway.

Coarse Fishing used to give a warts and all review of products and was a far better barometer of what was worth a serious look at prior to buying.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

“In my humble opinion, the angling press have become cosy bed partners with the manufacturers and the very reason that constructive reviews are now seldom seen is as good a reason as any for me to not buy the magazines anyway.”

Excellent point Mark.

I’m pretty sure they’re all in the mutual back-scratching Angling Trades Association.

Another good reason I found not to buy them is that the majority of the articles are just writing to a formula, well, they were for about three years before I stoppped reading them.

[TF_caster robParticipant]

@Anthonywaters wrote:

@redarmy wrote:

why would people be talking about this thread on here its no different to the threads on mfs and talk angling ?

Didnt this thread originate on here, I genuinely dont know if it did or not that is a question, i only visit this site,I know its been interesting reading and 3000 + views

It was on maggot-drowners (for one) before here.

[TF_redarmy]

it was also on the magiscroft fishery website and alex bones went on there to answer his critics

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

I don’t see why this should become a thread about slagging off magazines in general. Magazines, like forums, have good and bad points. And like forums some magazines are better than others….
There certainly are some tiXX on forums, no doubt about that. But they are also places to pick lots of constructive tips and advice (and to have some banter, meet people, organise things quickly and in the case of TF raise a lot of money for good angling causes). And I repeat forums have resulted in huge amounts of fishing tackle being sold….
As for tackle reviews, you also have to look at the economics. When I edited Total Coarse Fishing back in the 1980s it made far more money out of circulation revenue than advertising revenue…. so I had every right to take the publisher on about content. As soon as that equation changes (and it has as circulation of angling magazines falls year after year) and the advertisers become more important in terms of keeping the business alive (and therefore you and your team in a job), the dynamics have to change.
It’s not as if they lie about product, it’s just that in general they don’t review bad product. This is the case in most specialist areas these days, not just fishing, as circulation comes under more and more pressure – because of the internet….
As for Alex’s comments, while possibly not wise in some respects, it’s obviously what he believes so fair play. Surely you are only going to be offended if you are one of those people who talks about stuff they know little or nothing about as if you were an expert on it….
As has been said, forums are just an extension of the chat chat that goes on before and after a match….

[TF_BigBadBenParticipant]

Ladies, calm down.
He is just doing his job, if the DHP bosses didn’t think it would make good reading it would not have been printed.
If you have been offened by what has been written you must be feeling guilty about something.
I have read match fishing, I have read the thread and it is the best laugh I have had for a while.
I especially liked the bit about white dog poo.
I would try white explosion groundbait, I think this would help with the texture.
I would also add a pinch of krill powder for the added attraction and stimulant, it will help when it comes to smelling your hand.

[TF_Dodge]

If only more time and effort was put into getting team fishing back on its feet instead of carp , carp and more carp by the angling media and the angling industry then maybe match angling in general would be in a much better place. Knowledgable team anglers do use web forums but rarely if ever get involved in threads ……..

Answers on a postcard ! 😉

[TF_Johnny Mac]

Dodge, you’re always involved in threads 😀

[TF_GLEBE1]

Dodge, do you blame everything on carp???? Lol 😀

[TF_orexina]

Dodge, many fisheries have tried to go down the silver route to get away from carp. These have failed and been replaced with carp as that’s what the punter wants.
I’d like to see more silver matches but you have to have the right mix. Catching tiddlers is not the way to go and stocking lakes with big fish is expensive.

What do you suggest is the best way to get match fishing going again…….without carp?

[TF_Dodge]

@orexina wrote:

Dodge, many fisheries have tried to go down the silver route to get away from carp. These have failed and been replaced with carp as that’s what the punter wants.
I’d like to see more silver matches but you have to have the right mix. Catching tiddlers is not the way to go and stocking lakes with big fish is expensive.

What do you suggest is the best way to get match fishing going again…….without carp?

Err the canals and rivers are full of fish ……..

Catching tiddlers ??? match angling is all about getting bites whether you need 3lb or 30lb to win your section or even win the match .

Sorry to say this orexina but your post is typical of why so many “team anglers” dont get involved in forums ……… it is usually a waste of time 😉

No offence meant but think my point has been made ? 🙂 😉

Happy new year all 😀

[TF_NoCarpPlease]

Dodge,

much as I dislike commies (see username), I do think that we’re living in the past to a certain extent. The horse has bolted and “the punters” are the ones with blinkers on these days.
They’ll never know the thrill of 4oz roach on no. 2 elastic and a 26 …. or the feeling of achievement of 2lb of bits on a flooded river.
Frankly – I’d rather go on a venue where I’m likely to catch 10lb of bits than 3lb!

And IMHO, non-stop team fishing is partly to blame! along with commercials, carp, clear rivers, poles (carbon, not ethnic), cormorants, petrol prices, chopped worm, sunday trading, instant gratification society and perhaps some other factors.

[TF_One Out of the Frame]

NCP: I literally was laughing aloud reading your last post, blaming ‘poles – not ethnic!’ Class! lol

I think you have hit the nail on the head in the entire post.

One of the old skills that we rarely practice is catapulting groundbait. Catapult the bait out then drop a bomb on it – pure enjoyment whilst ‘spodding’ either directly or with a large cage feeder is a chore imho.

I went pleasure fishing a couple of years ago at Parkers in Bulkington (a venue I used to do well on) and fished it Arrow Valley style with casters substituted for Cocoa Pops and the floating maggots were rubber casters!

Anyway, I was bagging up on a quiet day and a few of the regulars flocked to see the new wonder method!

[TF_badgerParticipant]

It was probably this forum that Alex was referring to with regard to negative posts regarding Banjo feeders.If you care to do a search on here you will find 14 posts that that in Alex’s opinion appear to be slating banjo feeders, well imo the posts are quite mild, some are positive, some are constructive and the odd one is just daft. Now this is hardly the majority,mostly or largely a representation of TF users in fact its a very small minority. As far as folk saying there is no need to be offended by comments not directed at you personally, of course you have a right to be offended. In all walks of life you can hear or see something that is aimed at someone else, but thats not to say you should not be offended by it. I come on here to gain information on tactics, tackle, venues, opinions and also for discussion and entertainment so long may it continue.

[TF_Dishyfish]

Dodge, canals and rivers full of fish !! I totally agree with you there.. I was brought up fishing the london canals, along with anglers like Chris V, Graham Dack and the likes of Dave Croydon Hemmings and the Vincents ect ect ect… Fished many a river too !!! I’ve used number 2 zim elastic size 24-26s hooks.. Scaled down to 0.6 racine tortue and half a pinkie or single joker. And to be honest I would love to fish a London canal again, but i value my life more than fishing.. Its a shame, but I’m sorry to say but the canals we used to fish have become DEATH TRAPS !! That is probably why 99% of the anglers who shared the canal banks with me fish commercials.. It’s not all carp !! Willinghurst where I frequent a lot, have a lake called Johns stuffed full of silvers. there’s Furnace another one stuffed full of silvers. At the end of the day !! its 99% safe parkin and bites.. Probably the same for canals, regarding bites but with canals you dont know where the next rock is going to come from or if your car will still be there when you get back….

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

@Dishyfish wrote:

Dodge, canals and rivers full of fish !! I totally agree with you there.. I was brought up fishing the london canals, along with anglers like Chris V, Graham Dack and the likes of Dave Croydon Hemmings and the Vincents ect ect ect… Fished many a river too !!! I’ve used number 2 zim elastic size 24-26s hooks.. Scaled down to 0.6 racine tortue and half a pinkie or single joker. And to be honest I would love to fish a London canal again, but i value my life more than fishing.. Its a shame, but I’m sorry to say but the canals we used to fish have become DEATH TRAPS !! That is probably why 99% of the anglers who shared the canal banks with me fish commercials.. It’s not all carp !! Willinghurst where I frequent a lot, have a lake called Johns stuffed full of silvers. there’s Furnace another one stuffed full of silvers. At the end of the day !! its 99% safe parkin and bites.. Probably the same for canals, regarding bites but with canals you dont know where the next rock is going to come from or if your car will still be there when you get back….

Never a truer word spoken, towpaths, river banks and carparks can be a right pain in the arse with natural venues, I lost count of how many of my mates fished Newmillerdam in the 80s to have their cassette players nicked or worse still their cars nicked then you have to put up with the dog walkers, comercials are a blessing!!!!

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

I read his bit and i think hes way off the mark. Ironically a fishing forum is the winner of the best fishing website. PMSL.
The mag wasnt particulary great either in my opinion, its become so predictable is not even funny anymore. Ill still buy it though, but only because there is nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Alex could have picked the wording to his point better but he does have a reasonale point to be honest. Most dont know what there talking about when they slag off tackle. Shame he puts all forum users together in the same basket. Some of us do know what we are talking about and catch plenty of fish to back it up!

[TF_rb211]

i agree with baitchef mag is not that great but still buy it.
Gets a bit boring seeing the same anglers every month though trouble is dont know how they can gee the mag up a bit and was it me or was pole fishing the thinnest magazine of the year

[TF_andy cranes mateParticipant]

@rb211 wrote:

i agree with baitchef mag is not that great but still buy it.
Gets a bit boring seeing the same anglers every month though trouble is dont know how they can gee the mag up a bit and was it me or was pole fishing the thinnest magazine of the year

Totally disagree. Ive noticed theirs quite a few fresh faces appearing lately, young cameron hughes fishing local waters to me for example. Its also nice to see old features returning to the mag.Personally I agree with Alex, there are far too many people that want a quick fix, don’t want to work things out for themselves,
It seems that the professionally offended have found their way onto here.

[TF_unlucky19]

Subscribe to both and enjoy them both always some decent information in for an angler such as me who can only fish once a week .

[TF_craig gonk basher]

look chaps…alex is entitled to his own opinion whether its what hair gel he uses,what shaver he uses to trim his pubes. he’s entitled to voice his opinion…if you dont like it,dont buy the magazine..personaly i think the magazine has gone down hill the last few months but il keep buying it cos fishing is in my blood 😀

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but by stating that he is willing to bet most people who are posting don’t have the foggiest what they are on about, puts him in the same boat as the very people he is complaining about. In my experience most of the forum users I’ve come across over the years have been very knowledgeable, yes you get the odd tit, but generally forums are a great place for top quality largely unbiased information.

[basshallParticipant]

hi to all of you out there that has had a go at alex (who is doing a good job out there) has any one rang him or emailed him on this. it seams to me he had the balls to right it and to put it in the magazine but no one has out there has rang him or as i say emailed him if he has done a bad thing in life ( but as i see it he has not ) are you any better for having a go at him on here. life is to short why do you not just go fishing

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Just for the record, I’m not having a go at him. He has done a good job with the mag so far in as much as there is more content and more detail etc etc and hes made some positive refreshing changes. My point about the mag being predictable is just a generalisation of fishing today, commercial this, pellet that, method this, F1 etc etc etc. Its not his fault its just that in my opinion the whole commercial matchfishing scene has stagnated, its boring. I have genuinely found it very difficult to read any of the articles/features this month, whereas a few years ago I couldn’t put it down. Of course this is just my opinion.

Like I said, he has made some general sweeping statements about forum users which is not my experience. There are plenty of forums out there, carp, match, specimen etc, maybe if he was going to criticize he should have been more specific.

Anyway, who cares, just a bit of discussion. Rant over.

[TF_duanepipe]

i was one of em who said the preston banjo feeders were crap and there should change the name to the none stick frying pan. and i still stand by that. around our way we make em out of plastic milk bottle lids plastic tubeing and a disc of lead. and we have no problems with bait falling out due to the thread on the lid. the prestons are a bad design becouse the there not porous so bait wont stick. unless ovcouse the baits spot on. which in my opinion and alot of other anglers to much messing about mr bones. matchfishing mag is too corporate these days and to much in the tackle companies best interests. NOT THE ANGLERS. get it sorted please. otherwise these forums will be the way forward. ps bring back the drroop test on poles just like improve y c fishing did back in the 90s. thats if the angling corporation allows this.

[TF_Tim_D]

@badger wrote:

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Opinions please, mine is he should sit down and grow up a bit, by slagging of the majority(his word) of angling forum users, he’s also addressing DHP readership who pay his wages. One of his statements suggest that folk come on sites like this to moan about products etc, and that they should go to the manufacturer etc. Well I reckon I’ve a valid point to make so I’m going to complain to his employer and let them know I was offended by this editorial and recommend that it is retracted and a apology is submitted.
This is just my thoughts so I look forward to hearing other peoples opinions.

So you’re offended, so what! Get on with it….

I agree with his comments.

[Anonymous]

So, you agree with Alex that you dont know what your talking about, Tim_D???

[TF_Tim_D]

I mean I agree with Alex that a lot of people on forums such as this don’t know what they’re talking about. 🙂

[TF_scarf]

I’m not sure what Alex’s motive was in slagging off angling discussion forum users, but If his silly rant was prompted by criticism of the banjo feeder it’s a little ironic that in the same issue an article by Nick Speed comes up with an alternative to the banjo that he obviously thinks will do a better job of getting the feed to the bottom in one piece.
Could it be Alex that doesn’t know what he’s talking about?
Got to say though that the latest issue of MF is pretty good and I certainly won’t be cancelling my subscription.

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

I haven’t read the thread criticising Banjo Feeders BUT by his own premise is Alex Bones not acting somewhat ‘cowardly’ ? Why did he hide behind his editorial instead of joining the discussion HERE and discussing his POV with those he had an issue with. It struck me Alex was acting in a mirror image of the actions he so robustly criticised or is it a case of do as I say not as I do. IIRC, Alex chose to go online elsewhere which compounded his hypocrisy.

Ultimately, the editorial comments were ill advised. Words and phrases were very poorly chosen by a ‘novice’ editor who on that basis perhaps has an excuse for a serious editorial faux pas. Perhaps David Hall / Roger Mortimer / Jon Arthur need to have a quiet word and some form of apology issued here or in the next issue of MF.

The moment Alex started mentioning internet forums he almost immediately descended into a hysterical soap box ranting lunatic.
“what really gets my goat these days are website forums”
“it seems that suddenly everyone is an expert on topics that arise”
“I’m willing to bet the MAJORITY of people who are posting don’t have the foggiest what they’re on about”
“an innovative product that, in the right hands, can be an unbeatable tactic”

To summarise thus far all website forums collectively annoy Alex Bones. The majority who post on internet forums are clueless, is that 51% Alex or 99% Alex? Despite most of the people who post on internet forums being clueless they all believe they are experts. It seems Alex Bones can read minds and make medical diagonosis upon complete strangers, the majority of the world.

An exceptionally gifted young man Alex clearly is!!

The banjo product is brilliant and you (the majority) are not good enough to use the product. Perhaps PI should have spared everybody the embarassment of purchasing and using a product that they are incapable of using. Alex is clearly in a minority and not only can he read the minds of complete stranger but he can base his judgement on using a product once?

“I had no problem with the banjo feeders the first time I tried them.”

Alex then appears to contradict himself / extract himself from a deep hole? by praising internet forums briefly BUT alas he soon returns to reality and gains a second breadth to launch his criticisms with added gusto;

“For the most part a breeding ground for literary bacteria and infectious, germ ridden comments that poison the minds of the vulnerable.”

So you are either evil so and so’s or just plain vulnerable according to Dr Alex!!

“Forums are largely frequented by people who like to be told what to think, not those who think for themselves”

Personally and without stealing the esteemed position of Dr Alex I find internet forums are frequent by highly opinionated people, more so than non users. Whatsmore, many of these users have fantastic knowledge and the internet can be one means of expressing themselves publically before they are asked to write dare i say it for magazines etc.

Remember forums are frequented by a majority who “represent everything that’s wrong with today’s society” albeit Alex then contradicts himself not for the first time by referring to minority after discussing majority. Make your mind up Dr Alex!!

The editorial was surely an attempt to mimic Gerald Ratner

Some here in this thread have used the article to go off on a tangent. Oops perhaps I sound like Dr Alex with comments about Guru, MF magazine etc and oddly one or two posters who mistakenly want to agree with Dr Alex and admit to being inept and poisonous vermin. However, what I say about angling, what 99% of you say here does not matter because we can. In my real life employment I cannot and do not say anything that could be misconstrued or damaging to my business or employee. Even when I disagree, I bite my tongue because the customer is always right.

I buy and read MF (although I think in time we will all be reading it electronically) because of Darren Cox, Alan Scotthorne, Steve Ringer, Andy May et al and it is they who make MF a worthwhile purchase. Alex Bones is not a reason to buy MF and may become for some a reason not to. Many like Jon Arthur to Steve Ringer to Andy May have sensibly and astutely used the internet to promote angling, themselves and their sponsors. Internet forums were of value to them all as they are to many. Geeps is right to talk about how many products internet forums have helped to sell, the good that they do for the sport.

Ironically, IIRC, Geeps ‘bought’ this site from David Hall Publishing. DHP was an internet angling forum pioneer along with Gary Plant at talk Angling, Last-Cast which incl Andy May. So, I suggest Dr Alex vents his splein at David Hall and I can suggest David Hall points one or two home truths out to a ‘novice’ editor who will hopefully learn from his blunder and perhaps even apologise. Preferably in a genuine un Kenny Daglish/Liverpool FC manner.

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

My post has been sent to Messrs Bones, Arthur & Hall

[TF_D.W.]

I was going to stay out of this one but in all honesty, Alex now has a “witch hunt” after him for doing exactly what most forum users do – speak their mind on their own opinion of things.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Ultimately, the editorial comments were ill advised. Words and phrases were very poorly chosen by a ‘novice’ editor who on that basis perhaps has an excuse for a serious editorial faux pas. Perhaps David Hall / Roger Mortimer / Jon Arthur need to have a quiet word and some form of apology issued here or in the next issue of MF.

Alex Bones a “novice” editor? IIRC Alex was editor of one of DHP’s magazines for a while a few years back & I am certain that Jonny Arthur worked under Alex to start off with on the magazines!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The moment Alex started mentioning internet forums he almost immediately descended into a hysterical soap box ranting lunatic.
“what really gets my goat these days are website forums”
“it seems that suddenly everyone is an expert on topics that arise”
“I’m willing to bet the MAJORITY of people who are posting don’t have the foggiest what they’re on about”
“an innovative product that, in the right hands, can be an unbeatable tactic”

To summarise thus far all website forums collectively annoy Alex Bones. The majority who post on internet forums are clueless, is that 51% Alex or 99% Alex? Despite most of the people who post on internet forums being clueless they all believe they are experts. It seems Alex Bones can read minds and make medical diagonosis upon complete strangers, the majority of the world.

It also seems that the forum users can also read Alex’s mind and make a diagnosis about the bloke.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

An exceptionally gifted young man Alex clearly is!!

You are correct there!!!! Not many anglers around that can cast as accurately at long range as Alex can & simultaneously wear their trousers tucked into football socks and pull the look off!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The banjo product is brilliant and you (the majority) are not good enough to use the product. Perhaps PI should have spared everybody the embarassment of purchasing and using a product that they are incapable of using. Alex is clearly in a minority and not only can he read the minds of complete stranger but he can base his judgement on using a product once?

“I had no problem with the banjo feeders the first time I tried them.”

Have not used the Banjo feeders so not going to comment on them, but long term visitors to the site will know my PERSONAL thoughts on the manufacturer, who did NOT wish to talk to me about problems with some of their products a number of years back (water under bridge now). Alex asks if the users had spoken to PI about the problems they were having, but if they did try to contact PI and got the same responses as I did those years ago, then they have the right to say what they want to about them if their is a problem. Most manufacturers are glad to hear about problems from the anglers if there actually is one, and the majority will do what they can to help the angler with any issues, but then again there are some that aren’t interested (a minority) and expect the tackle shops to deal with so-called “user error” or any issues – even if a design flaw (and there have been a lot of products released to market that have blatant issues but hardly anything done about them).

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Alex then appears to contradict himself / extract himself from a deep hole? by praising internet forums briefly BUT alas he soon returns to reality and gains a second breadth to launch his criticisms with added gusto;

“For the most part a breeding ground for literary bacteria and infectious, germ ridden comments that poison the minds of the vulnerable.”

Alex is spot-on there!!!! Do you know how much bacteria is found on the average computer keyboard???? The average computer keyboard is DIRTIER and more infectious than a public toilet seat!!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

So you are either evil so and so’s or just plain vulnerable according to Dr Alex!!

Most think they are evil so & so’s but in reality are plain vulnerable…

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

“Forums are largely frequented by people who like to be told what to think, not those who think for themselves”

Again, Alex is spot on!!!! Most forum threads start with a question from the original poster wanting to know how to do something. If they had thought for themselves, then they wouldn’t have posted it.

[@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Personally and without stealing the esteemed position of Dr Alex I find internet forums are frequent by highly opinionated people, more so than non users. Whatsmore, many of these users have fantastic knowledge and the internet can be one means of expressing themselves publically before they are asked to write dare i say it for magazines etc.

Highly opinionated – yes, fantastic knowledge – sorry, but these people are a serious minority!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Remember forums are frequented by a majority who “represent everything that’s wrong with today’s society” albeit Alex then contradicts himself not for the first time by referring to minority after discussing majority. Make your mind up Dr Alex!!

Contradiction – maybe, but 100% correct!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The editorial was surely an attempt to mimic Gerald Ratner

I don’t blame him either as Gold is worth a fortune nowadays!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Some here in this thread have used the article to go off on a tangent. Oops perhaps I sound like Dr Alex with comments about Guru, MF magazine etc and oddly one or two posters who mistakenly want to agree with Dr Alex and admit to being inept and poisonous vermin. However, what I say about angling, what 99% of you say here does not matter because we can. In my real life employment I cannot and do not say anything that could be misconstrued or damaging to my business or employee. Even when I disagree, I bite my tongue because the customer is always right.

Mistakenly agree with Alex? It’s not a mistake, and Alex has had the intestinal fortitude to say what a lot of people have been thinking for a very long time. Forum users represent a very small part of the magazine’s readership and there isn’t any other magazines available to buy instead now is there? Losing half a dozen or so readers because they are upset might actually cause more copies to be sold in future to anglers who may not have bought the mag for a while. Controversy sells & it is proven by the amount of controversy caused by a couple of hundred words in an editorial bought up on in this thread.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

I buy and read MF (although I think in time we will all be reading it electronically) because of Darren Cox, Alan Scotthorne, Steve Ringer, Andy May et al and it is they who make MF a worthwhile purchase. Alex Bones is not a reason to buy MF and may become for some a reason not to. Many like Jon Arthur to Steve Ringer to Andy May have sensibly and astutely used the internet to promote angling, themselves and their sponsors. Internet forums were of value to them all as they are to many. Geeps is right to talk about how many products internet forums have helped to sell, the good that they do for the sport.

Alex used to use the forums as well to promote things, as well as fish forum organised matches and events.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Ironically, IIRC, Geeps ‘bought’ this site from David Hall Publishing. DHP was an internet angling forum pioneer along with Gary Plant at talk Angling, Last-Cast which incl Andy May. So, I suggest Dr Alex vents his splein at David Hall and I can suggest David Hall points one or two home truths out to a ‘novice’ editor who will hopefully learn from his blunder and perhaps even apologise. Preferably in a genuine un Kenny Daglish/Liverpool FC manner.

Ironically, GP did indeed buy the site from DHP, but none of the sites you mention were the pioneers of angling forums or sites online. TF got as big as it did because of the promotion that DHP did for it (sorry Gareth, but even you cannot deny that!). There were plenty of sites and forums around before TF came about, but none of them had the promotion from the magazines. 1996 was the first time that I used an angling forum and that was a few years before TF or talk angling came about.
Alex is not a “novice” editor, so where that came from I have no idea & as Alex insinuates “if you don’t know, keep it closed”.

It is not just Alex that has this opinion from the magazine editors. Most of them would have loved to have said what Alex did, and Alex is not the first DHP editor to have done so. Editors from the carp angling publications have also had their say about forum users in editorial and stirred up similar from the carp angling forums by telling the truth!

These opinions are purely my own and represent only what my head has told my fingers to type.

[TF_scarf]

Witch hunt my arse DW! Alex made a deliberately provocative statement and got the response I’m sure he was seeking. Good luck to him. It doesn’t upset me.
Whilst I feel that Alex’s editorial was written with tongue in cheek, your low opinion of discussion forum users, and presumably high opinion of yourself, seems more heartfelt. That is a worry.
I really don’t think that most magazine editors have that view on what are, ultimately, their readers/customers.

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

I think any remarks, like that One Alex has made are structured, they have to be checked for editing so its probably propaganda so to speak, raising awareness, how many will have bought Match Fishing just to read the article ? then decide its actually a good read ? ……. I dont think Alex has made a mistake think hes done it to get thing moving.

[TF_fadd1st]

If it was done as a means to improve circulation then it didn’t work for me!

The only way it will get me back on board is to improve the content with decent readable articles; not the current obvious sponsors plugs. A magazine will not survive on sponsorship alone. If it doesn’t give its readers something to read then they will not buy it! Give up the snotty remarks and get to improving the content and don’t keep re hashing old stuff. Put some fun back on the pages, there must be another Sid or Boris out there to entertain us!

[TF_Gavin]

Darren, I’m pretty sure Alex’s last stint was as a deputy Ed (starting under Roger Mortimer as a junior writer before Dave Harrell took over), and Jon Arthur was Alex’s replacement at Match Fishing? I could of course be wrong! (What price say’s Alex’s return was due to the already mentioned previous editors departure, being as he left under him 😉 ) Still, if he got in trouble for the comment it wouldn’t be the first time, I remember Rog printing a pretty harshly worded apology blaming Alex for stating Berkley Gulp! baits were a fake bait rather than a real food imitation.

I’ve met Alex on the bank (as you well know) and he was a nice enough chap and passed info freely, and yes he’s a bloody good angler who can chuck a feeder with frightening accuracy which I’ve seen first hand. That doesn’t make him a good Editor, and he made a bit of a faux-pas with his comment – slagging of a majority of his customers isn’t a cleaver idea in any trade!

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

@D.W. wrote:

I was going to stay out of this one but in all honesty, Alex now has a “witch hunt” after him for doing exactly what most forum users do – speak their mind on their own opinion of things.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Ultimately, the editorial comments were ill advised. Words and phrases were very poorly chosen by a ‘novice’ editor who on that basis perhaps has an excuse for a serious editorial faux pas. Perhaps David Hall / Roger Mortimer / Jon Arthur need to have a quiet word and some form of apology issued here or in the next issue of MF.

Alex Bones a “novice” editor? IIRC Alex was editor of one of DHP’s magazines for a while a few years back & I am certain that Jonny Arthur worked under Alex to start off with on the magazines!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The moment Alex started mentioning internet forums he almost immediately descended into a hysterical soap box ranting lunatic.
“what really gets my goat these days are website forums”
“it seems that suddenly everyone is an expert on topics that arise”
“I’m willing to bet the MAJORITY of people who are posting don’t have the foggiest what they’re on about”
“an innovative product that, in the right hands, can be an unbeatable tactic”

To summarise thus far all website forums collectively annoy Alex Bones. The majority who post on internet forums are clueless, is that 51% Alex or 99% Alex? Despite most of the people who post on internet forums being clueless they all believe they are experts. It seems Alex Bones can read minds and make medical diagonosis upon complete strangers, the majority of the world.

It also seems that the forum users can also read Alex’s mind and make a diagnosis about the bloke.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

An exceptionally gifted young man Alex clearly is!!

You are correct there!!!! Not many anglers around that can cast as accurately at long range as Alex can & simultaneously wear their trousers tucked into football socks and pull the look off!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The banjo product is brilliant and you (the majority) are not good enough to use the product. Perhaps PI should have spared everybody the embarassment of purchasing and using a product that they are incapable of using. Alex is clearly in a minority and not only can he read the minds of complete stranger but he can base his judgement on using a product once?

“I had no problem with the banjo feeders the first time I tried them.”

Have not used the Banjo feeders so not going to comment on them, but long term visitors to the site will know my PERSONAL thoughts on the manufacturer, who did NOT wish to talk to me about problems with some of their products a number of years back (water under bridge now). Alex asks if the users had spoken to PI about the problems they were having, but if they did try to contact PI and got the same responses as I did those years ago, then they have the right to say what they want to about them if their is a problem. Most manufacturers are glad to hear about problems from the anglers if there actually is one, and the majority will do what they can to help the angler with any issues, but then again there are some that aren’t interested (a minority) and expect the tackle shops to deal with so-called “user error” or any issues – even if a design flaw (and there have been a lot of products released to market that have blatant issues but hardly anything done about them).

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Alex then appears to contradict himself / extract himself from a deep hole? by praising internet forums briefly BUT alas he soon returns to reality and gains a second breadth to launch his criticisms with added gusto;

“For the most part a breeding ground for literary bacteria and infectious, germ ridden comments that poison the minds of the vulnerable.”

Alex is spot-on there!!!! Do you know how much bacteria is found on the average computer keyboard???? The average computer keyboard is DIRTIER and more infectious than a public toilet seat!!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

So you are either evil so and so’s or just plain vulnerable according to Dr Alex!!

Most think they are evil so & so’s but in reality are plain vulnerable…

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

“Forums are largely frequented by people who like to be told what to think, not those who think for themselves”

Again, Alex is spot on!!!! Most forum threads start with a question from the original poster wanting to know how to do something. If they had thought for themselves, then they wouldn’t have posted it.

[@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Personally and without stealing the esteemed position of Dr Alex I find internet forums are frequent by highly opinionated people, more so than non users. Whatsmore, many of these users have fantastic knowledge and the internet can be one means of expressing themselves publically before they are asked to write dare i say it for magazines etc.

Highly opinionated – yes, fantastic knowledge – sorry, but these people are a serious minority!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Remember forums are frequented by a majority who “represent everything that’s wrong with today’s society” albeit Alex then contradicts himself not for the first time by referring to minority after discussing majority. Make your mind up Dr Alex!!

Contradiction – maybe, but 100% correct!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

The editorial was surely an attempt to mimic Gerald Ratner

I don’t blame him either as Gold is worth a fortune nowadays!!!!!

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Some here in this thread have used the article to go off on a tangent. Oops perhaps I sound like Dr Alex with comments about Guru, MF magazine etc and oddly one or two posters who mistakenly want to agree with Dr Alex and admit to being inept and poisonous vermin. However, what I say about angling, what 99% of you say here does not matter because we can. In my real life employment I cannot and do not say anything that could be misconstrued or damaging to my business or employee. Even when I disagree, I bite my tongue because the customer is always right.

Mistakenly agree with Alex? It’s not a mistake, and Alex has had the intestinal fortitude to say what a lot of people have been thinking for a very long time. Forum users represent a very small part of the magazine’s readership and there isn’t any other magazines available to buy instead now is there? Losing half a dozen or so readers because they are upset might actually cause more copies to be sold in future to anglers who may not have bought the mag for a while. Controversy sells & it is proven by the amount of controversy caused by a couple of hundred words in an editorial bought up on in this thread.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

I buy and read MF (although I think in time we will all be reading it electronically) because of Darren Cox, Alan Scotthorne, Steve Ringer, Andy May et al and it is they who make MF a worthwhile purchase. Alex Bones is not a reason to buy MF and may become for some a reason not to. Many like Jon Arthur to Steve Ringer to Andy May have sensibly and astutely used the internet to promote angling, themselves and their sponsors. Internet forums were of value to them all as they are to many. Geeps is right to talk about how many products internet forums have helped to sell, the good that they do for the sport.

Alex used to use the forums as well to promote things, as well as fish forum organised matches and events.

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

Ironically, IIRC, Geeps ‘bought’ this site from David Hall Publishing. DHP was an internet angling forum pioneer along with Gary Plant at talk Angling, Last-Cast which incl Andy May. So, I suggest Dr Alex vents his splein at David Hall and I can suggest David Hall points one or two home truths out to a ‘novice’ editor who will hopefully learn from his blunder and perhaps even apologise. Preferably in a genuine un Kenny Daglish/Liverpool FC manner.

Ironically, GP did indeed buy the site from DHP, but none of the sites you mention were the pioneers of angling forums or sites online. TF got as big as it did because of the promotion that DHP did for it (sorry Gareth, but even you cannot deny that!). There were plenty of sites and forums around before TF came about, but none of them had the promotion from the magazines. 1996 was the first time that I used an angling forum and that was a few years before TF or talk angling came about.
Alex is not a “novice” editor, so where that came from I have no idea & as Alex insinuates “if you don’t know, keep it closed”.

It is not just Alex that has this opinion from the magazine editors. Most of them would have loved to have said what Alex did, and Alex is not the first DHP editor to have done so. Editors from the carp angling publications have also had their say about forum users in editorial and stirred up similar from the carp angling forums by telling the truth!

These opinions are purely my own and represent only what my head has told my fingers to type.

Darren?

What a strange reply. I am sorry but I do not remember you in the very early days on internet forums. To be honest anglers on the net were few and far between back then. Fred Davis was a shinning light back then whilst Lewis M was an early example of how outstanding anglers can contribute massively. You ? I do not remember you.

This site and popularity? Like most forums it grew as anglers accessing the net increased. The way with the internet I believe. In those early days, yes the site was at the forefront and to the best of my knowledge later Talk Angling and Last Cast added to a developing angling internet arena. Match Angler (Dave Pearson?) was around back then too IIRC. I can remember Giles Cochrane being an early outstanding user of the internet. Giles got little or no recognition and IMO the net helped make editor / tackle trade aware of just how interesting and innovative an angler he was. I can even remember a younger Steve Ringer asking for information on White Acres. How times change. Mind you he was a class act from day 1 and even used a pseudonym (what a disgrace!! 😉 )

Hard to know how to reply to most of your post. Hopefully it was tongue in cheek. It cam across very poorly. A witch hunt lol I still praise match fishing for its quality articles by great people/anglers. I never criticised Alex Bones the angler and yes he is a novice editor IMO. How many issues has he been editor? Handful? fingers on one hand? His editorial was woeful and misguided. You seem to be trying to mirror him though :rolleyes:

Angling is special. Joe public can come here and other forums and talk about angling with the equivalent of premier league footballers / world class stars. The body of knowledge and know how that we have access to is frightening. We are not just talking a Steve Ringer but ‘low profile’ anglers like TrueBlue etc. This forum and others are excellent. Anglers are by and large good, good people.

Oh Alex Bones has never replied nor has he come here so I do not have to read anybodys mind to say he is a ‘cowardly’ hypocrite who needs to think about what he says and eat some humble pie perhaps.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

dont yer just hate long posts ???
just keep it simple,,
like this,

“HE’S SPOT ON” !!!

bump,,, straight to the point !!!

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

So….the point is… the Minority of you have taken offence to what Alex has said??? So 11 pages on I think we have gathered that…… Ok .. surly your all bored now.. Go and get you Lynch mob refreshed and plan your next attack on someone else!!

…so I take it none of you want to buy a WE love Alex Bones t-shirt from me and Leaky Lloyd?? 😉

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

Or a tattoo of him on yer left buttock like lee’s !!! 😀 😀 😀

had mine on me todger,,,, cos its maaaaaaaaaaaassive !!! 😉 :rolleyes: :p 😀

[TF_piperpilot]

I can’t find a copy of MF anywhere so couldn’t read what he wrote to stur up this hornets nest, Please enlighten me someone,

[fisherman philParticipant]

Cant believe that a simple post that i started has caused so much discussion.Only voiced my opion on a product just seems like it has been taken way to far

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

@fisherman phil wrote:

Cant believe that a simple post that i started has caused so much discussion.Only voiced my opion on a product just seems like it has been taken way to far

You are apparently not allowed to voice your opinion Phil and any negativity towards angling products is merely down to your ineptitude. According to Alex Bones 😮

[TF_the snowman]

who is this carpcruncher and leaky lloyd are they for real or just take us all as pools fodder

[Anonymous]

mmmmmmm

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

@punchmeat wrote:

I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW SAD YOU LOT REALLY ARE…YOU KEEP GOING ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT ONE BLOKES OPINION…THERES A LIFE OUT THERE WHY DONT YOU GO OUT AND GET ONE WHILE YOUR ON THIS BEAUTIFUL EARTH AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE SMALLEST PROBLEM THATS EVER OCCURED…IF YOU LOT STARTED AN ARGUEMENT ABOUT IMMIGRATION OR SPONGERS OR EVEN THE NHS MAYBE THE COUNTRY WOULD BECOME A BETTER PLACE, VENT YOUR ANGER AT THINGS THAT ARE WORTH IT NOT A F@CKIN LITTLE PIECE OF WRITING THAT MEANS JACK SHI@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😡

You must be Alex or his relation 😮 I presume the caps lock was a deliberate attempt to beat people down by shouting them down. I believe this is an angling forum, a place where people discuss angling. You are here too yet you want us not to discuss angling. How curious. You also offer us advice to ignore anything and everything whilst humming what a wonderful world BUT contrarily advise us to start venting our splein about immigration / spongers / the NHS. Why not tell us all your views and explain why you chose those 3 particular topics :rolleyes: You do realise that millions of migrants have made a huge contribution to the U.K over decades and continue to do so. Perhaps you mean illegal immigrants. Hard to know amidst the shouting and swearing. Why you mention the NHS in your 3 most important ‘pet hates’ :confused:

Do carry on 🙂

[TF_big jockyParticipant]

Have a look at this thread from a Scottish forum a couple of weeks before the issue was published. Alex gets into a bit of a “debate” with the forum users.
http://www.magiscroft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5967

[TF_rocketFeeder]

@big jocky wrote:

Have a look at this thread from a Scottish forum a couple of weeks before the issue was published. Alex gets into a bit of a “debate” with the forum users.
http://www.magiscroft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5967

Hi, I took part in that discussion. As far as I can see all that I and others have done is to suggest areas of improvement – nothing wrong with that. I emailed several ideas/suggestions to Alex over the Christmas period, as yet I haven’t had a reply but I’m guessing he is snowed under after the Christmas break so I’m sure I will receive a reply at some point. I have read the editorial and I don’t think the Magiscroft thread is the source of the content, but who knows, I will ask in the MFS chat session at the end of the month.

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

@the snowman wrote:

who is this carpcruncher and leaky lloyd are they for real or just take us all as pools fodder

would you like a T-shirt or Tattoo?? lol

[fisherman philParticipant]

Good to see that alex has gone on another forum to answer comments.Maybe he should come on here as this is where the thread starterd regarding the banjo feeder

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

@the snowman wrote:

who is this carpcruncher and leaky lloyd are they for real or just take us all as pools fodder

lee’s a class act mate,, im just pools fodder !!!
this is part of the argument,,
people using forums to mask there ability,,
im an average clubby who goes in opens for the buzz of it mate, but atleast i know it,! 😉 😉

i dont know you bud so i wont pass judgement on you but your post seams to read, like ive/we’ve pidgeon holed you as “pools fodder” when you are infact awsome :confused:

you may be mate, then again you may be one of the many self opinionated muppets who are absolutley (modded – just be careful with your language please) :rolleyes: 😀 😀

[TF_the snowman]

your right there lloydy but this muppet takes pellets to a match and yes carpcruncher id love a t shirt with your sweat on it

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

oooooooooh, now im curious ? 😉 😎

pete specifically told me anything other than maggots and pinkies would kill it !!!! 🙁 .
tell you what snowy,, yer lower than a snakes belly when you have to pull a stunt like that to ensure yer beat a clubby !!! 😀 😀 😀

ps,
a clubby who spanked pete “the paste man” swinson,, on me right and andy “flexi mo” morrisons ass,, on me left,,down at the glebe !!! :p :p 😀 😀

ooooh wait a minute,, thinkin about it,, im awsome aren’t i ? :p :p 😀

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

I will go to Mother care to get your T-shirt Snowy.or is it a Baby Grow..pmsl 😀

[TF_ken kaniff]

@Allan_Marsden wrote:

@punchmeat wrote:

I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW SAD YOU LOT REALLY ARE…YOU KEEP GOING ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT ONE BLOKES OPINION…THERES A LIFE OUT THERE WHY DONT YOU GO OUT AND GET ONE WHILE YOUR ON THIS BEAUTIFUL EARTH AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE SMALLEST PROBLEM THATS EVER OCCURED…IF YOU LOT STARTED AN ARGUEMENT ABOUT IMMIGRATION OR SPONGERS OR EVEN THE NHS MAYBE THE COUNTRY WOULD BECOME A BETTER PLACE, VENT YOUR ANGER AT THINGS THAT ARE WORTH IT NOT A F@CKIN LITTLE PIECE OF WRITING THAT MEANS JACK SHI@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😡

You must be Alex or his relation 😮 I presume the caps lock was a deliberate attempt to beat people down by shouting them down. I believe this is an angling forum, a place where people discuss angling. You are here too yet you want us not to discuss angling. How curious. You also offer us advice to ignore anything and everything whilst humming what a wonderful world BUT contrarily advise us to start venting our splein about immigration / spongers / the NHS. Why not tell us all your views and explain why you chose those 3 particular topics :rolleyes: You do realise that millions of migrants have made a huge contribution to the U.K over decades and continue to do so. Perhaps you mean illegal immigrants. Hard to know amidst the shouting and swearing. Why you mention the NHS in your 3 most important ‘pet hates’ :confused:

Do carry on 🙂

Here here punch meat you all need too get a life(including me for replying to this crap)
bored now same comments over and over again i could see where alex was coming from at the start nevermind after over 100 replies yawn

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

@carpcruncher wrote:

I will go to Mother care to get your T-shirt Snowy.or is it a Baby Grow..pmsl 😀

why did yer stop fishing for starlets mr ashington ???? cos they couldnt fit the team name on yer gore tex babby grow ?:D 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[TF_caster robParticipant]

The more I think about this faux controversy, the more it assimilates with the spun stories about wannabe popstars. Those with no talent, no originality and no idea. Desperate for recognition in any form, rather than the alternative – oblivion.

A product of the culturally bereft Saturday night TV downscaling where it’s preferable to be recognised as an imbecile instead of being ignored.

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

caster rob wrote:

The more I think about this faux controversy, the more it assimilates with the spun stories about wannabe popstars. Those with no talent, no originality and no idea. Desperate for recognition in any form, rather than the alternative – oblivion.

A product of the culturally bereft Saturday night TV downscaling where it’s preferable to be recognised as an imbecile instead of being ignored.[/quo

(Modded – once again you are asked to mind your langauge).

[TF_scarf]

There’s an interesting and well balanced response to Alex’s outburst from David Hall in his blog on the Match Fishing website. He hasn’t a sense of humour when it comes to white dog shit posts though :p

[TF_Allan_MarsdenParticipant]

@scarf wrote:

There’s an interesting and well balanced response to Alex’s outburst from David Hall in his blog on the Match Fishing website. He hasn’t a sense of humour when it comes to white dog ___t posts though :p

Not a bad response if somewhat confused. The Banjo thread was not the white dog shit thread so to bring such posts up that are here in this thread Hally seems somewhat confused. Personally, I do not like threads being moved off subject BUT white dog ___t etc etc wasn’t Hally the publisher that included snide rumours etc that included such jokes / humour etc? Hypocrisy?

Early Total fishing? The only loonies were spam attacks by anti angling nutjobs. Fred Davis, Lewis Murawski et al the threads were fantastic but posters limited. As the internet became more available / common libel became an issue. However, it is for any form of communication. Control? Moderation? IMO, Hally and Co rightly because that is his and their choice did not want to spend hours upon hours ‘policing’ forums.

Hally seems to be advocating no criticism of the angling trade. So what does he want anglers to do? never post a single negative comment about the Angling Trade and its products? Perhaps angling companies should field test their products far more than they do before releasing them upon the public? The flip side could be that honesty becomes a seller and attracts advertising owing to honesty. The standard cliche trotted out for well over a decade is that we only review good products. Many feel that is not true and that the worth of magazine reviews has diminished. Hence, honesty may become a sellable niche re products. Internet forums have helped to create a bespoke handmad angling product industry, so they do some good too.

It was interesting to read Alex Bones on the Scottish website being critical of editors from other angling publications for self promotion. Not sure if I prefer that to the editors comments about products being used to sell that product in an advertisement in his magazine.

Pseudonyms have been used since mass media began. Often, such names are used as terms of endearement / acknowledgement of the respect that person earned. What was wrong with Boris re Frank Barlow or Big Kev for Kevin Ashurst etc Was/are Jon Arthur wrong to use End Peg or Steve Ringer to use Carp….. ?

[TF_Leaky Lloyd]

It was once in abundence but in recent years has been more of a unicorn,, a mere myth to the youth of today, but i for one remember it well and refuse to let it be forgotten,,
with the power of the internet and god willing,, white doggy doo will thrive once more !!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: 😀 😀 😀

it was boring when it was started,, for christ sake someone close this thread ! 😎 😉

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