Fish and Fishing Questions for FBlues (MKII)

[TF_Cutnut]

Keith has thrown down the gauntlet on Mick the Bookie’s thread saying he doesn’t post on here unless the Topic is about Fishing.

So let’s give it a sensible go. No silliness, No having a pop, no innuendo, no personal attacks or posts that divert the thread from the line started. Plain simple questions kept only to Fish or Fishing that Keith is invited to answer.

Please note: The first attempt at this was scuppered by the very types of replies that allegedly keep Keith and other previous regulars away from posting on here. So lets make an effort to prove that True TF members still exist.

Dear Keith

At one time Alan Scotthorne was noted as recommending Pigeon Fient as a Roach attracting additive in some of his groundbait mixes. The continental anglers apparantly swear by it.

What is the best packet or fresh?
In both cases what’s the best way to prepare it?
What do you say are it’s roach pulling power qualities?
Does it have any place in carp mixes?

Regards

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Where did Alan Scothorne get his rig roost from?

[tweet]

Tweet you are suspended for 2 days. Carry on it will be permanent.

Love

WCA

[TF_FBlues]

I was first aware of pigeon droppings as part of a groundbait mix in the 1970s when the shop I was working in imported the Vimat brand from Belgium. Pigeon racing is a huge sport there and the droppings came from special lofts where the birds were fed a diet high in hemp with other grains. The droppings were therefore partly digested hemp. It is advisable to only used dried droppings as the fresh stuff can carry diseases such as histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, and psittacosis.

I never had much success with it, I think because I was adding it to pre-mixed groundbait, branded stuff, rather than constructing a mix from scratch. Like adding Oxo to beef stock.

What I did learn was that many of the dry ingredients that we’d use as additives, like ground hemp for example, are usually reconstituted with HOT water before adding to the wetted groundbait mix.

[TF_markco]

Hi Kieth,
I have heard you talk about the effect that pellets have on silver fish .i.e increase growth in commercial waters and you say that they are eating the excrement that carp cannot digest, do you think that this recycling can carry on after the silvers have easten it .i.e do you think that there is still protein content available to other fish to eat until it no longer contains any food benefit at all.The reason that I ask is that we have a club pool that has had a huge surge in not only the numbers but the quantity of skimmers that are being caught and I am unsure as to how this is happenening as the amount of pellets that the fishery sees is quite a lot but not huge amaounts and the place only gets match fished every other week and the average number of anglers is probably 10-15.
Any information would be appreciated.
Regards
Mark

[TF_FBlues]

The rig roost question is doing my head in because I know but can’t remember! It’s a Dutch (maybe Belgian) firm that sells it, with four letters in the name…Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. It may come back.

[TF_FBlues]

Much depends on the pellets markco: high oil/protein pellets are much harder for fish to digest so a lot of protein passes through and out the other end. Low-protein pellets won’t have so much effect, obviously, but if carp – or other fish – eat them rapidly their gut can’t break them down so they too will pass through. You may have seen pictures of carp in magazines with boilies nearly intact in the landing net or keep-sack. Same thing.

Something I learned quite recently is that when you see carp cruising near the surface on warm days and not feeding, they are digesting, as the warmer helps the process. The worst thing you can do is feed – it’s why the dreaded ‘dobbing’ or even floaters work with no feed.

[TF_markco]

Thanks Kieth,
We only allow the use of skrettings coarse pellets , I was wondering if the fish could be recycling the feed a number of times, we have started to catch skimmers that are 2 lbs+ and we have have never stocked them and they are perfect like they have never been caught before.
The pool is five years old and we only had half a dozen skimmers in the first place and they were only about a pound when they went in and the last time one was caught was about 8 months ago and it was over 5lb and in the past 3 years only 3 have been caught.We have just had an explosion of skimmers from 2inch to the biggest we thought about a pound and now we have 2lbers from nowhere?.
We have a healthy number of carp and I am surprised that we have had so many skimmers survive as I thought the carp would just eat the spawn.
Regards
Mark

[TF_FBlues]

At Roy Marlow’s Glebe Fishery it is unusual, rare even, to catch small skimmers, under 6oz, yet every year he nets out thousands. They have plenty to eat without your bait!

[TF_squatt]

Keith, to set a reel drag is it 1/3 of the weakest link? Thanks

[TF_FBlues]

That’s my formula squatt. As a starter anyway. Best done on lines of 5-6lb and over.

[TF_squatt]

Keith, cheers. 2 more questions: When long range feedering for bream when does feeder weight out weigh bite detection/straightening out the bow caused by wind or tow. On a long chuck is a hair rig better i.e. self hooking should result in a fish and not involve ‘human error’ on the strike.

[TF_MICK THE BOOKIE]

Brilliant…..Keith i have asked a question on my previous thread about the “Thames Champs”….Save me posting it again,could you read it and perhaps answer it,if indeed you know or have heard anything on the subject…..Many thanks.

KEITH……Have you heard anything on the future of the “Thames Champs”?~think ~think ~think ~think

[TF_FBlues]

squatt: I’m assuming stillwater. Two schools of thought here. A hair rig won’t self hook on its own, it needs a short hooklink and some weight to hook itself against so a 4ins max hooklink and method feeder would be that. Or a sort of chod rig (dink-dink a la Daiwa Goldthorpe) with a 4ins hooklink looped on to the main line 2-3ft above the feeder

In the ‘old school’ we used to WANT a bow in the line and for long range – up to maximum catapult range because we’d want to fire out groundbait as a feeder will never hold enough to keep a decent number of bream happy and that was our long range, I’d guess 60 yards with a whopper dropper. We’d use a butt indicator as it was too far to cast using a swingtip and we missed way too many bites on a quivertip (in stillwater). We’d point the rod at the lead and leave the bow, even going so far as to grease the line. Braid makes that easier nowadays. We would fish a 1ft link to the bomb and a 5ft link to the hook as a paternoster so the fish could pull the tip up by simply moving the floating line – far less resistance. On still days we’d leave a loop between rod tip and water and strike when that went up. It was the only way to hook roach at range; trying to hook them on the quivertip, unless they’d swallowed the hook, was impossible.

[TF_toplights]

Picardi?Comes to mind Keith,favourd by Gudgeon,i found.

[TF_Spuds1]

Keith ,

You are now my long weather forcaster god supremo , let me explain .

During an episode of Tight Lines in December last year when we had all the snow and frozen lakes you said that we would have no more snow or condition like this for the rest of the winter , you were correct .

How on earth did you predict that ?

[TF_rik_j]

FBlues>

What do you rate as the “X-factor” of the best anglers in the UK? What have they got, or what have they done, to stand out from the crowd?

What are the most common mistakes you see from other anglers?

[TF_FBlues]

Picardie – in a paper bag, produced by Sensas but didn’t bear the name. It mixed like a brick to a pale grey colour and gudgeon did seem to like it. It was standard on the Wey Nav.

Spuds1: there is a great weather forecaster called Joe Bastardi (honest!) that used to blog on Accuweather. He is, like me, very sceptical on human-induced climate change. unfortunately he has now left to work for a US based premium weather company that charges too much for me to justify paying.

rik_i: the best anglers fish to win, fish to their strengths, are technically excellent but most of all they work out what’s required quickly. Each member of the England squad, for example, will hit on something on the venue when practising. Often Alan Scotthorne sorts out the groundbait mix, Steve Gardener will come up with rigs and Will Raison clicks with fine-tuning. Of course Sean, Des and Stu come up with a load of input too. Kim Milsom was a great ‘natural’ angler. Often seemed to be doing things ‘not right’ if you know what I mean – until he pulled his net out! My ex-colleague at Daiwa, Simon Wheeler, is of similar ilk.

[TF_cookiescatch]

hi keith,
with regards to bait do you think additives actually work?? is it down to smell ,taste or colour???
iv tried different flavours and colours but i personally didnt see a difference in my catch rate, i know colour is important in winter but this question is aimed at summer fishing to try and gain an edge over oter anglers!

[TF_fin]

Now this post is what a fishing forum is all about

[TF_gis9]

I use a eyed hook pr27 for margin fishing and i tie it with a spade end knot. Caught several good carp with this and then lost one broke on the hook ,you are the knowledge on knots what would be the best knot

[TF_MICK THE BOOKIE]

@MICK THE BOOKIE wrote:

Brilliant…..Keith i have asked a question on my previous thread about the “Thames Champs”….Save me posting it again,could you read it and perhaps answer it,if indeed you know or have heard anything on the subject…..Many thanks.

KEITH……Have you heard anything on the future of the “Thames Champs”?~think ~think ~think ~think

BTTT.

[TF_unlucky19]

keith you spoke about a D rig which you will be using looked good ,any chance you could let me no were to find a explanation of how to tie it.
thanks.

[TF_rik_j]

Thank you for your reply, Keith. It is more or less what I have witnessed myself, now it’s just left for me to learn the same skills 🙂

[TF_Mike Herrington]

Keith, I had a go with the D rig (if that is what it is) with an eyed hook and found that the baitband slid up the shank of the hook towards the eye of the hook too much (basically the pellet was sat at the back of the eye).

Am I doing something wrong.

Also, what would be deciding factor between fishing a hard pellet instead of an expander on the deck?

[TF_FBlues]

gis9: palomar, no doubt about it. You can even put the tag end back through the eye and tie a pellet band on it.

Unlucky 19: Have a look at this: http://www.bevancarptackle.co.uk/tipstricks.html

scroll down til you see the one with the loop through the eye. You are replacing the ring with the pellet band.
Mike Herrington: I only use that ‘D-rig’ for fishing shallow and having the pellet at the top of the hook creates a great hooking angle. The band shouldn’t be on the hook but on the double line that forms the ‘D’. The pellet may be there when you wind in but I reckon it will be on the top of the bend of the hook when you are fishing. The impetus of the bait hitting the water should ensure that.

I can only give an opinion on hard or soft pellet on the bottom: I don’t use soft pellets between May and October but then again I rarely fish on the bottom during those months. If I do, I feed what I fish and I have never fed an expander. I still have the original bag (well, 3/4s of it) that Trev Price gave me when he first started GOT baits, at Rolf’s Lake!

M-t-B: do you have Harpo’s e-mail?

[TF_Mike Herrington]

thanks keith, btw i meant that the rubber bait band slid up the doubled up line towards the eyed hook (not the shank of the hook).

[TF_FBlues]

Sorry about the bait additive question: I was in the office and got thrown out to go home.

I don’t know whether you’d necessarily call them additives but ingredients definitely work! I don’t know that some items actually make a difference but there are physical reasons why some things ‘work’ even if you don’t catch more fish at the time. Betaine for example is an amino acid and as such will microscopically lower the pH of the water immediately surrounding it. This has been shown to attract fish as their food is primarily acidic – as it all is made up of amino acids. So hungry fish will be attracted. Betaine is used to improve digestion in humans and the belief is that it does the same thing to fish. If fish digest their food better they will be hungrier sooner and eat.

Fish recognise good food sources so items like krill meal will be attractive as it indicates good protein. Other ‘natural’ times such as water snails are food sources so an ingredient composed of that will work. Green lipped mussel is a natural source of betaine; silkworm chrysalis have proved attractive and quite a few European groundbaits have had this in for many years. I don’t rate synthetic copies of these because I think fish can tell the difference.

There are some things that smell but don’t taste. I was once given some strawberry ‘flavoured’ soft pellets to try. They smelt superb, really like fresh strawberries. One day I was tempted enough to eat one – and it tasted like bread, mostly because that it what it was made from! Some of the best winter carp baits I have ever used were simply rolled and steamed balls of bread, coloured and flavoured (and sold in tubs). I won’t give their name away, indeed I don’t even know if they are available still but I’ve got some in several variations and I have won a nice few quid on them over the past 4 seasons.

[TF_thedog]

what would be in your pre-bait mix for Irish bream and how much would you feed.

[TF_FBlues]

Pre-bait, ie groundbait used to prime a swim for a period of time before actually fishing, wants to be cheap and have the potential to hold fish. I’ve not been for 25 years and then we used 75% brown crumb, 25% white crumb. In the 1970s when I went we used ‘pig meal’ which contained Lord-knows what but flaked maize was in there. It was heavy too!

Nowadays, if I was going to fish a swim every day and prebait the day before I started I would use a mix of 50% crumb, 50% Vitalin Original dog food. Bream LOVE the stuff. As for how much, the answer is how much can you carry? My rule of thumb for feeding ON THE DAY is one ball for every bream I want/hope/need to catch at the start. On a match for example, if I think 30kg will win and the bream average a kilo I will chuck in 30 balls (tangerine-sized) at the off and then fish feeder or bomb over the top, with a ball after every fish. As a pre-bait, 100 balls goes nowhere but will do the job. Use that every day and you will have sore arms, both for throwing in and catching fish. I would add NO samples of what I was using on the hook in the prebait, a bit in the main feed on the day with a higher concentration in what I shoved in the feeder.

[TF_the margin gnome]

Keith
Now KHV has been identified at many UK fisheries do you think it should still be a notifiable disease? Do you think we should still try and protect our fish from it or just let it do it’s worst and allow antibodies into our stocks of the future?

[TF_FBlues]

I think it should be notifiable, along with any other confirmed fish diseases. I also believe that notification should be reinforced with compulsory notices at the fishery entrance or on tickets so that anglers can do two things: make an informed decision on whether to fish in a water where there is or has been disease and also take the necessary steps to help prevent spreading it.

We’ve got it, it will be everywhere pretty quickly. The big issue is, of course, whether fisheries will actually own up to it because of the notifiable status.

There is some, very slight at the moment, evidence that a carp-specific disease may have spread to another cyprinid species. This is NOT confirmed and may not be fact but similar symptoms to a carp disease (SVC) which we are supposed to be free of (which is a joke!) has appeared in another species of fish. As KHV is a pretty virulent virus, KHV may be next and then we’re in some deep mucky stuff.

[TF_geepsterParticipant]

Keith – what in your opinion is the best way to get more kids into angling, and is it even important?

[TF_baitchefParticipant]

Make it free

[TF_FBlues]

I don’t think there is any shortage of young anglers coming in to the sport. We are predominantly match anglers and there is a distinct shortage there but I spend a couple of hours each Monday in Yateley Angling Centre, which is a mainly carp shop and two things stand out: no real shortage of kids and no real shortage of money in their pockets!

Unless they buy a specific match fishing magazine (total available 1) they are not very likely to find out what match fishing is about. If they think they might like it and browse the magazine shelf in WHS or the like they will find Carp Talk, Advanced Carp Fishing, Total Carp Fishing, Carp World, Big Carp and probably some I don’t know.

Carp fishing is easy because failure to catch is often considered success; ‘doing one’s time’. Time on the bank can be a substitute for skill and knowledge. It is possible for someone to catch a carp bigger than I’ve ever caught on their first outing: how many anglers win a match the first time they fish? Match fishing needs an apprenticeship, carp fishing doesn’t. Every rig, bait, method is freely available and well documented. Carp tackle firms fight with each other to give DVDs away on carp fishing. And to top it off there are fisheries stuffed with carp available for all to fish. It’s a no-brainer.

“1.357 million licences were sold last year, 27 percent more than in 2000” from 2009 EA licence sales. 126,285 junior rod licences were sold last year compared to 117,757 in 2002/3 and remember that is just 12-16s. It’s about 2/3rds of the rate of concession sales!

Satellite and cable TV pushes angling out on a regular basis, about the only national media (apart from talkSport) you’ll find fishing. That’s the clue; we preach to the converted. I think Mr Brewster at Cudmore has a plan and it may work.

[TF_squatt]

Thanks for your replies to my posts. I have been away with work, I’ve been reading but not posting.

[TF_Cutnut]

Before Key West what was your favourite fishing holiday destination and why?

What do you reckon to the prospects of the South West turning up more exotic fish this year as climate change brings in warmer currents? Do you think we might one day see a resurgence of Tuna assuming we get more prey species left alone by the trawler fleets?

[TF_The Ginger magician]

great to have you back mate

[TF_proper tidal boy]

F BLUES do you know how many currents are around Richmond bridge ????Also what are Richmonds seven sisters ?? tidal questions ?

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

i think keith is thinking more about the currents off key west ! , this week but i’m sure if he can get tinterweby access ,he’ll pop on and check out the thread

[Author]

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