Has the Mick Wilkinson bubble burst

[TF_sumo]

Please don’t take this has a dig because it isn’t but the question is “are these floats as sought after as before or is Mick just making enough to keep up with demand now or have other handmade floats filled a gap in the market ?” the reason I ask is because there seems to be plenty of stock on the website now and they don’t seem to sell out within hours as before ( what do we all think ? ).

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

I think its like anything else the markets saturated with handmade float makers

[TF_gloves007uk]

just had a look myself
carnt belive i have seen MW floats for sale from his web site and they are not all out of stock ~clap

[Corndawg moderatorParticipant]

I would hazzard a guess that Mick has upped his output to try and supply the demand….

His are the originals,just because other people have started making and selling thier own, I doubt they would be any concern as far as orders for Micks go…

[shark7]

god i can remember when pea floats used to go for £10 a float on flea bay now been on his sight for days …

[TF_kev34]

Maybe Dave(wheely) has got his finger out the lazy sod ~sick ~sick ~sick ~sick ~sick

[TF_Gavin]

Plenty of others making floats just as good now and much easier to get hold of. I tried for ages to get a few Wilkies and could never get the ones I wanted, but now I can go on another website and order floats just as good and have them made up on rigs a week later. It has to affect the demand for Wilkies!

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

You have to remember that every time Mick makes and sells a float that is 1 more available to the angling market. In the early days Mick’s floats like any other floatmakers are incredibly scarce but with time he will have produced and released 000’s of float which reduces the ability of people buying to sell on to make such huge profits. Simply supply and demand. Those people looking to buy to sell will gradually be reduced over time leaving the floats for genuine buyers. Mick will IMO continue to sell as many floats as ever.

There are also some fantastic alternatives out there now like Nick, Hillbilly and Malman to name but a few. I would argue there is plenty of room in the angling market for all these hand made specialists but it will reduce speculators and frenzied buyers.

[TF_D.W.]

Mick has upped output to make sure that there are more floats available at a large expense to himself. Same with the new materials that he and a couple of the others are using. Mick is always one step ahead though, and new patterns are always in the making a long time before they go on general release (winter floats are developed in the summer & vice versa).

As long as it means that people are not needing to be ripped off by those that buy simply to profit from other anglers, then the same amount of floats will go out. A lot of it is down to WCA as well in doing a lot behind the scenes to stem the profiteers.

[TF_sumo]

From my point of view I am happy that mick has upped production as I found it really frustrating not being able to buy floats without being very lucky that you logged on at a certain time of day .DW what has cost mick so much to meet demand in terms of output etc?

[MrFoxman]

Wait till it warms up a bit, then I would imagine they will sell within the hour of being put up. A lot of anglers don’t bother going fishing this time of year and just pack up through the winter.

[TF_carpmagicParticipant]

I speak to Mick a few times a week and he haas quite simply as Darren said upped output of floats. He has also sorted out a lot of the ebay problems by flooding that at times too. I would say demand has probably dropped slightly, but judging by the amount of PM’s i get regarding availability i doubt Mick will be losing any sleep lol!

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

If he’s upped production DW might refer to employing more staff or renting bigger premises

[TF_carpcruncherParticipant]

@GavinG wrote:

Plenty of others making floats just as good now and much easier to get hold of. I tried for ages to get a few Wilkies and could never get the ones I wanted, but now I can go on another website and order floats just as good and have them made up on rigs a week later. It has to affect the demand for Wilkies!

The only ones as good as Micks are Hillbillys , and I would also say john walkers. All others are back in the times. Mick has just upped the levels , and besides…. why would Pea’s sell by the masses in the depths of winter?? Also .. theres not many fishing at the minuite as the weather has been pants. I say get them why you can , as when it warms up again you will all be moaning that you cant get them anymore..~sick ~clap

[TF_Hillbilly]

Ha ha you just can’t win at this game. Mick and myself are really good friends and have basically pooled our ideas and knowledge plus worked very hard to make our products more easily available. One of the big problems with homemades used to be the waiting and in Micks case this led to the Ebay profiteering racket which although legal was not very ethical. Lets just say that when you have an ex precision engineer working with a floatmaker of Micks experience and using the best materials available you are both going to come up with some rather good and available products.~shh

[TF_herbie]

mick and hillbilly both work dammed hard to supply floats we should be thanking them not casting aspersions on mick,s popularity. its winter and to be honest i start thinking about buying floats about february 22nd.see how many are left in april.~shh

[TF_nick_the_2nd]

@carpcruncher wrote:

@GavinG wrote:

The only ones as good as Micks are Hillbillys , and I would also say john walkers. All others are back in the times.

How can you make such a statement without trying all the floats available and knowing the skill, time and effort (and money!) some of us invest to produce a quality product ~naughty

It would be foolish of me to claim mine or other floats for that matter are better than others but would boldly say they are equally as good in build quality. Each one is thoroughly tested by myself and a number of local match anglers untill I am happy with it.

[TF_squatt]

A bold statement CC, Nick I guess he didn’t mean it like it sounded.

[TF_JohnH]

Checked out the web site this morning and there is very little there so I do not know where the idea came from that the bubble has burst.
Obviously demand is high just before Xmas and in the cold weather most anglers have had nothing better to do than make up rigs and to dream of warm sunny days.
The days of bulk buying and profiteering on ebay on the back of someone elses hard work seem to have gone so clearly MW floats have put themselves where they want to be.
Personally I have bought from MW, Hillbilly, Malman and Nick and have not been dissapointed. MW however IMO were the first there and will allways enjoy a cult following. One other benefit I think we have all seen is the improvement in commercially made floats which I think is a result of having to offer something that is comparable to what the lads in the sheds offer.
We have never had it so good.

[HOPEFULLParticipant]

Thanks for the heads up sumo, jumped straight on the site and got myself some peas and cookies I have been trying to get for what seems a lifetime! Got quite a few now from most of the guys on here but I must admit to having a bit of an unhealthy obsession with those peas! lol

[TF_D.W.]

The expenditure that Mick has laid out is nothing to do with larger premises or employing staff. As Hillbilly has said, him & MW work closely together with regards to almost everything within the two separate businesses. New materials are one of the reasons why float production can be increased as there is less rejected bodies or waste, but the material costs are higher (cannot have everything good). As far as I am aware, the only two people using these new materials are Neil & Mick, which is probably what Lee means when he compares Mick’s floats to Neil’s & nobody elses.
Once the warmer weather starts again, the demand for floats will outstrip supply again. Time of year and the bad weather at the moment always slows down the float trade (has done every single year that MW has been trading)

[TF_joffmiester]

i wouldn’t of thought anyone is buying much at the moment ~sick ~sick perhaps the odd ice breaker ~sick ~sick

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

The original poster wasn’t having a dig from what I read and yet people decide to treat it as such. CRAZY

RE The new material. I am fairly certain that more than 2 float makers are using the material. I stand corrected if I am wrong but my feeling is I am not.

With all due respect even Mick is a newcomer from what I know to say Richard Latimer / Mick Bassett and so forth in terms of selling commercially.

My personal experience is that whomever you buy from Hillbilly, MW, Malman, Nick etc etc you will get fantastic floats and sometimes depending on where you fish, a certain manufacturer does a more suitable float for that tactics/venue and vica versa.

Thanks God we have so many quality float makers. Long may it continue. To some posters stop bitching etc.

[yorkiboy]

If it is like where I live we have had post 3 times since the bad weather started so it is not worth sending for them because it takes so long to deliver not like our newspapers which have been delivered in 2ft snow drifts, personally I use Malman floats.

[TF_sumo]

NW Cut Angler wrote:

The original poster wasn’t having a dig from what I read and yet people decide to treat it as such. CRAZY

NWCA thanks for that , as I said in my original post no dig intended , I was genuinly interested what peoples thoughts were and raised some suggestions as to what those reasons were , personally I think its great that there are good stock levels available on Micks site now and you can most of the time get what you want when you want it ( without going the grand scale manufacturing route where quality at times can be lost).
On another point I’m glad that this post has created 24 post on it ( not a Nathan Watson fisho thread I admit but has kept a bit of debate going which of late has been a little slow , again not a dig just my opinion )

[TF_nick_the_2nd]

Regarding the materials I use if anybody is interested…..

I now use 2 different types of foam and also balsa for pole floats. I don’t know if the foam is the same as others use as I have sourced it myself.

I use a hard coating that is probably not used by anybody else, or should I say I have yet to see it on a float.

I would think most of the other materials I uses come from the same 3-4 places most of the float makers buy them.

[TF_yorkshire]

maybe if there that good and unbrakeable, there no need to buy so many??

[MadScientist]

to answer the original question..erm …no…

You honestly have to try and make these things to appreciate the craftmanship and thinking that goes into something that costs a couple of quid to produce.

I started trying to make my own floats a year or so ago and they were absolute p** – then I went through a phase of trying to make them better and taking on as much advice and info I could glean from the internet..hours spent searching minute details has paid off to increase the quality by about 10% – from 50 to 60% of what you can buy from established handmade sources. Then there is the hundreds of pounds spent on trying finishes and paints, a lot of which are not compatible with each other, but hey you don’t know that until you try it…Finding a tip color can take 6 months alone and a lot of money…wish I hadn’t started, but once you get the bug you can’t stop….

From experience I now know what is a good float and what is a great float – I can now make a good one which I wouldn’t sell and only use myself, but people like MW, Hillbilly, Gaz Malman, Ackoo and Nick make a great float..just wish I hadn’t started trying…should just have stuck to buying them!

My point, no the bubble hasn’t burst…quality always shines through and all these float makers are crafstmen that supply a product that takes a huge amount of effort to design and produce and that sells for silly money (too low!).

[TF_gazmalman]

@D.W. wrote:

As far as I am aware, the only two people using these new materials are Neil & Mick, which is probably what Lee means when he compares Mick’s floats to Neil’s & nobody elses.
Once the warmer weather starts again, the demand for floats will outstrip supply again. Time of year and the bad weather at the moment always slows down the float trade (has done every single year that MW has been trading)

Just to set the record straight i have been using the same harder foam for the last two years, and the same lighter foam for the last year. It seems a version of the hard foam is now being used on premade bodies so we may see some of the ‘paint by numbers’ floatmakers on ebay and such the like producing hard foam floats. However the light stuff is expensive and in some ways techinaically difficult to work with so it will be the domain of bespoke floatmakers for sometime i think.

No two ways about it December is the slowest month in the tackle trade as a whole, the weather is bad and nobody much is fishing as they are spending spare time in the shops spending money on christmas. If anything has burst its the ebay bubble, and if it has i know Mick will be chuffed as its rightly done his head in for years all he wants is for people to be able to get hold of his floats at a fair price.

[TF_gis9]

gazmalman i am paint by numbers aspiring floatmaker only for my own benefit and i used the premade foam bodies (this is my first attempt)i have floats by nick and mb floats . i am always browsing web pages of floatmakers and am always impressed .the floats i have made are certainly not the best BUT every one takes the shotting i want and i cant wait to use them and i will certainly make some more. Pencils next time and some margin floats .

[andy85Participant]

The only ones as good as Micks are Hillbillys , and I would also say john walkers. All others are back in the times.

totally untrue comment malham floats supply the best finesse maggot floats (winter wires) an the best pellet floats goin but that isnt only my opinion everybody is now using them around the nw circuit. For example which float in the mw range could u use for winter pellet or maggot fishing? there isnt one! although i can appreciate the time that goes into all handmade floats u cant say other float makers are behind the times when imo there actually ahead of the times.

[TF_stevie b]

andy85 wrote:

For example which float in the mw range could u use for winter pellet or maggot fishing? there isnt one! quote]

The new Mamba and possibly the superslim (I think it’s called)

[TF_Fred Davis]

I have also started to work with rohacell which is a closed cell foam originally brought to my attention by ronald hammers, the dutch floatmaker, the better grade is more expensive, In fact the very best rohacell is mainly supplied to the areonautic industry. also used in such things as radar equipment, however hospitals also use this grade in such things as x ray beds etc,however rohacell 71 is easily obtainable and in fact a very usable foam to make carp pole floats, from whilst rohacell 51 is an ideal medium for silver fish floats, the density however is very consistant, where as batches of balsa the density can vary quite widely, the foam is also impervious to most chemicals and being closed cell doesn’t absorb anything, one could argue why paint such floats as the effect is purely cosmetic, however for the amateur float maker it is just another material to play with, it does seem to sand up ok however I must agree that this medium is not as easy to work with as balsa, the other question I ask myself is at least balsa is biodegradble where as rohacell isn’t.

[andy85Participant]

the winter slims have spring eyes an a 1.5mm bristle, the f1s up here would have to round there mates up to pull that under lol thats only my opinion thou but i wouldnt use them personally. you wouldnt use spring eyes for roach fishing would you so why would u use the for f1 fishing? its prob to do with where ur brought up maybe but up north our venues are alot harder an the floats iv seen not one would do the job imo. not knockin mw floats thou as i like his diamonds for meat fishing. the point i was making is that all floatmaker are good at certain types of floats an for me malham floats are the best for the type of fishing we do up here prob coz he fishes venues similar to ours an understands whats needed.

[TF_stevie b]

@andy85 wrote:

the winter slims have spring eyes an a 1.5mm bristle, the f1s up here would have to round there mates up to pull that under lol thats only my opinion thou but i wouldnt use them personally. you wouldnt use spring eyes for roach fishing would you so why would u use the for f1 fishing? its prob to do with where ur brought up maybe but up north our venues are alot harder an the floats iv seen not one would do the job imo. not knockin mw floats thou as i like his diamonds for meat fishing. the point i was making is that all floatmaker are good at certain types of floats an for me malham floats are the best for the type of fishing we do up here prob coz he fishes venues similar to ours an understands whats needed.

God you bloody northerners! always winging about how hard you have it!
~think

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Why because he is simply saying it as it is.

It’s horses for courses and no float manufacturer produces every float for every situation and why should we expect them. In certain instances MW has the best float, in others Hillbilly, in others Malmans and in others Nick. Nothing wrong with saying that.

Generally MW caters for summer bagging and are better often for Midland / Southern venues. Hillbilly / Malman tend to offer more in terms of finesse and are geared to harder Northern fishing.

Sorry if it upsets Southerners but Northern fishing is far more demanding it always has bee and always will be. The previous posting was just telling it as it was not whining.

[TF_stevie b]

Is you lip hurting? You ripped the rod right of my hands there fella!

I’ll let somebody else explain why ;0)

[TF_Paddy]

Tongue’s and cheeks spring to mind Steve b!!! It made me laugh anyway! ~clap

[TF_redarmy]

steveb get back on the wrong side of the pennines and stop winding lancastrians up

[TF_bremesParticipant]

@NW Cut Angler wrote:

Sorry if it upsets Southerners but Northern fishing is far more demanding it always has bee and always will be. The previous posting was just telling it as it was not whining.

More demanding??,im thinking of running another match(not really) on the rower(holme pierrepont)now thats demanding,just ask red army~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_stevie b]

@redarmy wrote:

steveb get back on the wrong side of the pennines and stop winding lancastrians up

I’m on the right side mate! It’s you lot that are all left hookers~sick

I actually agree with NW Cut angler and Andy. I use what I need for any given situation! This maybe a wilkie, HB or any other float maker including commercially available.

I also know how hard some of the fishing is up north too given that I live in Holmfirth! ~clap ~clap ~clap

[TF_Waveney One]

You poor b++++r!

[Daddy BParticipant]

Been making my own margin floats for years. 2″ of peacock quill with half a cocktail stick rammed in the end, job done, LOL.

[TF_Kevin W]

I can’t speak for other hand-made floats because I haven’t used them, but I can vouch for Mick’s which are absolutely brilliant. I’ve been using Mick’s for a year or so and many of the floats I used before then are now redundant.

And don’t worry about tip thickness, just dot it down right to the surface, something easily achieved with Mick’s floats. If you don’t believe me, ask Steve Ringer about tip thicknesses. You’ll believe him.

[andy85Participant]

And don’t worry about tip thickness, just dot it down right to the surface, something easily achieved with Mick’s floats.

sorry but ur wrong mate totally disagree with that tip thickness dont matter. it is massive on the sensitivity of the float where do you think all of your floats buoyancy comes from? a 1mm glass tip will be miles more sensitive than a 1.5mm hollow plastic bristle an thats a fact. it wont matter if ur fishing for 10lbers maybe but f1s an smaller carp it does make a differance believe me. if that was the case we would use 4mm bristles so we could see our float better would we not?

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

actually the thickness of the bristle is unimportant its the overall density of the float and tip combined ,you could have two different floats ,one with a thick tip and one with a thin tip but different sized bodies or materials used too form the float bodies (one balsa ,one hdf or two bodies made of the same material but slightly different body sizes)

if they’re both dotted down and both require a equal amount of shot too sink them then they’re both as sensitive as each other ,its all about the displacement of water and overcoming the surface tension

or lets put it this way ,the answer to your float problem lies with Archimedes Principle that states:

An object immersed in water is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the object. The weight of the displaced fluid can be found mathematically. The fluid displaced has a weight W = mg. The mass can now be expressed in terms of the density and its volume, m = pV. Hence, W = pVg.

It is important to note that the buoyant force does not depend on the weight or shape of the submerged object, only on the weight of the displaced fluid. Archimedes Principle applies to objects of all densities. If the density of the object is greater than that of the fluid, the object will sink. If the density of the object is equal to that of the fluid, the object will neither sink or float. If the density of the object is less than that of the fluid, the object will float.

Let’s put it this way, using two extremes. If you have a large amount of float above the surface that requires an SSG shot to sink it, the fish needs to pull with a force equivalent to an SSG shot to sink it.

If you have a tiny tip of float above the surface that requires only a dust shot to sink it, then the fish needs only to pull with a force equivalent to a dust shot.

Therefore the least volume of float above surface is more sensitive than a large volume of float above surface. That volume may be a long thin antenna or a short stump of a thicker float, but if the volume of water displaced is the same then they have the same sensitivity, as Archimedes states.

now that is a fact

[TF_AnthonywatersParticipant]

Have to agree with Andy85 here I think although a 1.5mm hollow tip has its uses its not much use when your scratching for bites even when its dotted right down.

[Daddy BParticipant]

Agree with Chavender’s explanation, which I first read in a Dick Walker article the best part of 30 years ago. However, it follows that with two rigs dotted down by the same amount, the one with the thinner bristle will be more sensitive.

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

@Daddy B wrote:

Agree with Chavender’s explanation, which I first read in a Dick Walker article the best part of 30 years ago. However, it follows that with two rigs dotted down by the same amount, the one with the thinner bristle will be more sensitive.

but your thinking 2D in a 3D world ,just because something looks thinner doesn’t mean it has Overall less mass .your looking at a float and seeing the bristle ,much like the captain of the titanic saw the tip of the ice-burg ,and said “thats no problem ,with a ship this big and a ice-berg that small ,we’ll just brush it aside “

or lets put it this way which is heavier a ton of feathers or a ton of snow ?

or if two floats with different bristles thickness tips but equal mass, require the same amount of weight (force) too pull them under ,which is more sensative ?

[Daddy BParticipant]

Now I am getting confused Chavender. Isn’t the issue the volume of the float that sits above the surface as opposed to beneath it ? Therefore with two floats that have an identical height of bristle showing, the one with the thinner bristle will be more sensitive ?

Otherwise thinking logically, your theory would suggest that you could have two identical floats, with one dotted right down and the other lying flat on the surface – and needing the same force to pull both of them under ?

[TF_NW Cut Angler]

Chav why bother with super fine wire tips etc for say blood worm fishing? Why do we change stem material? Why do we have different float body shapes? As long as we dot our floats right down does it matter?

[John]

As Kevin Ashurst said over 30 years ago on just this topic…..”I don’t know who Archimedes fishes for but I haven’t seen him in the frame recently”.
He then went on to defend peackock quill as the best material for wagglers.

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

@Daddy B wrote:

Otherwise thinking logically, your theory would suggest that you could have two identical floats, with one dotted right down and the other lying flat on the surface – and needing the same force to pull both of them under ?

no because the float that is dotted down has the (oppossing force) shot aporximately equalling the mass ,less the weight required too sink it ,say a No9 shot ,the float laying flat doesn’t have the force already applied (not shotted up ) so would require weight/force much greater than that of the dotted down float (its capacity + the force = a No9 from a fish too sink it ) ,so if both floats are dotted down too the same point and both require a force = to a No9 shot too sink it a fish must exhert that force in order too indicate the bite by sinking the float so in this situration both floats are equally as sensative as both require the same amount too sink them .

if you have two floats with bristles of different thicknesses thats sitting with the bristles not dotted down .the volume of the remaining mass above the surface ,a lesser mass will be more sensative ,but if you have a short thick tip and a thin longer tip the mass of both may be sufficantly simular that they both require the same amount of shot too sink them and therefore are of the same sensitivity

[andy85Participant]

i still disagree 🙂 ur right in what ur probably sayin about mass etc im not that technical but i know i would rather use a 4x10s rig wit a 1mm bristle than a 2gram rig with a 5mm bristle dotted or not you will achieve better presentation with the lighter right. if that was the case we would just fish 2gram floats with 5mm bristles would we not? what ur sayin chav is as long as its dotted down it wont matter will it? i think what ur tryin to say is if both floats are dotted they will only take say 1 number 13 to sink it. so why dont we all just fish thicker tips like 5mm ones so we can see them easier? answer that coz it dont make a differance according to your theory? i dont know i might be wrong but ill keep using my 1mm bristles they work for me.

[andy85Participant]

put it this way chav if you have 2 floats the same. say a 4x10s both shotted with 3 number 11s an there is an inch of float on both showing. one has a 1mm bristle an the other has a 3mm bristle. if u put a grain of corn on the one with the 1mm bristle it will sink slighty if u do it to the one with a 3mm bristle it wont move. why is this? surely this is because the thinner 1mm bristle is more sensitive is it not?

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

@NW Cut Angler wrote:

Chav why bother with super fine wire tips etc for say blood worm fishing? Why do we change stem material? Why do we have different float body shapes? As long as we dot our floats right down does it matter?

the perpose of the bristle is bite indication and how we read that bite ,the more of the bristle above the water ,the more time you have too see the bite develop as the length of bristle sinks. you want the best bite indication too match the sensativity

you think about the intended bait and the type of bite expected from your target species and where the bait is going too be (ie on the deck or up in the water etc) are the bites likly too be timid or not .is the bait likly too be picked up or dragged away .

so you pick a material too suit the situration .

stem material ,the stem is the floats rudder and determins how the float will behave in the water .how it settles etc which effects pressentation and stability

the body shape varies because , its affected by water resistance and how it carries weight and by fine tuning the shape you can effect the water resistance it gives ,matched too how its weighted strung out ,shot bunched or bulk and how the weights are too behave in the water .

if you was too always fish with dotted down floats for everything all the time bristle material isn’t important because dotted down gives instant bite indication ,body shape would be determined by how you hang the weight ,how you see the bite would be important is it at close range or 20m away ,and is the fish likly too give a lift bite ? as short fat bristles are not so good for seeing lift bites ,longer ones are ,but its easier too see thicker bristles at distance but only the fish can tell the difference when 99% of the float is under water .

the devil is in the detail ,which is why 95% of float making is brain work ,3% hardwork & 2% perspiration .thars because not every situration is the same so fine tuning of the design of a float (more so a polefloat ) to suite a perticular situration ,getting the balance between pressentation & sensativity & bite indication is the fun

[TF_ChavenderParticipant]

@John wrote:

As Kevin Ashurst said over 30 years ago on just this topic…..”I don’t know who Archimedes fishes for but I haven’t seen him in the frame recently”.
He then went on to defend peackock quill as the best material for wagglers.

i thought everyone knew Archimedes fished for eureka !

[andy85Participant]

ill get me coat!!! lol think you have been drinking chav

[TF_shep2]

looks like sconees making a comeback to add to the list of float aces ~clap

[TF_gazmalman]

chav- it takes a number 11 shot to take 20mm of .8 glass down to a dimple on a 4×12, it takes a number 9 with a 1.5mm hollow bristle, largely down to the theroys of said greek bloke, tip diameter makes every difference in our 3d world. Tip material makes a difference because of balnace and interia.

shep- scone isnt making a comeback to floatmaking, hes having a range of floats made to spec by the same people who make the floats in the shops.

[TF_shep2]

oh soz gaz ive misread a post on another site + jumped to conclusions probably wonder what the theory behind that is ~think

[TF_Hillbilly]

I agree with everything that Gaz says in his last post.

[Author]

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