Homemade Jelly Groundbait Pellets

Home Forums Fishing Coarse And Match Fishing Homemade Jelly Groundbait Pellets

This topic contains 28 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Maia Fernandez 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #51566

    whilst trying to come up with an cheap homemade alternative to JPZ’S i’ stumbled across a possible bait.I’ve NOT used them yet but they look so right. The result was a bait that would suit the pole and commercial carp match angler and may be ok with the 30yrd lobs on the bomb. The pellets are easy to make using 4 ingredients only one is slightly tricky to get hold of (i.e. not in tesco) 2 you can change to your preference’s on.They are also inexpensive the ingredients cost about a fiver. The pellets can be cut out cleanly and used down to about 8mm using a lunchpunch or similar. The texture is abit like paste/softexpanders yet can be shipped out easily and can be turned to mush with a small squeeze between the fingers. The pellets seem to work at there best using a quick stop. The pellets i made are high in protein have a natural high salt level and are should be stable up to 80/90c. The whole process is only takes about 15mins one pan and no fridge to make plus a couple of hours to set and has just a few golden rules. You don’t have to be Jamie or Heston b although it was Heston who got me thinking. I will happily post the recipe if anyone wants to try it out.

  • #158002

    TF_booth
    Participant

    hi mate sounds intresting any chance of recipe 🙂

  • #158003

    TF_Anthonywaters
    Participant

    Can I ask how they will stand 80 oc, reason im asking is I did similiar with dog meat in 2006 I cooked a couple of cans blitzed them in a robot 2 packets of gelatine and they set just like luncheon meat I put the stuff through a 6 mm cutter it looked perfect untill the sun got over my bait tray it melted

  • #158006

    ill give em a go inky finger 🙂

  • #158014

    hi mate sounds good any chance of recipe

  • #158027

    Thanks for the interest lets hope it works !!

    300mls of cold tap water
    A flavouring of your choice (i used half a teaspoon of Thai shrimp paste from a Chinese supermarket. NOT the sandwich spread)
    A few drops of colour of your choice (I used black)
    5gms of Agar Agar. This is the key ingredient. DON’T USE GELATINE.
    60gms of fine groundbait of your choice ( i used sensas squid an mussel black) You could forget the groundbait and just make a firm jelly hooker.

    METHOD
    1 Put the carefully weighed out agar agar,water,flavouring and colour into a pan and leave to soak in the cold liquid for 5mins.
    2. After five mins the agar agar should have softened. Bring to the boil and continue to simmer for 5mins.
    3 Pour through a fine sieve into a suitable plastic container (8 x 5 or a 4 pint bait box,). After a minute or so sprinkle a third of the groundbait over the top of the liquid an stir in. Repeat the sprinkling/mixing until the groundbait is used up.
    4.Leave to set OUT of the fridge and uncovered for 2 hours or so.
    5. Cut out using a suitable punch (i used a 8mm lunchpunch)

    GOLDEN RULES, TIPS, AVAILABILITY AND AVANTAGES

    Agar Agar is made from a red seaweed and is the vegetarian /kosher version of gelatine. Unlike gelatine it’s much more stable in hot weather and can be reheated and it will reset. Agar agar also sets harder. Like gelatine some things will affect the setting properties but these are fruit based like pineapple and kiwi fruit. Agar Agar can be brought in a Chinese supermarket, health food shop or online. Don’t cover with cling film as this will stop it setting. Do not stir during the setting process as this will stop it setting.The mix will set out of the fridge without any problems. If you need to slice the pellets in half they cut easily. I’ve found that if you put the quick stop on the shiny side they don’t pull off so easily. If you are using groundbait make sure it fairly fine (not super carp).

    IMPORTANT
    1 DON’T USE A TREASURED PAN/SIEVE OR YOU MAY END UP WEARING IT
    2 IF YOU GO DOWN THE FISHY ROUTE WATCH THE CAT/LABRADOR
    3 IF YOU USE SHRIMP PASTE DO IT IN SOMEONE ELSE’S HOUSE OR HAVE A GOOD AIR FRESHENER.

    COST
    Agar Agar i paid £1.30 for 30grms
    Shrimp paste was £2.25
    Sorry for going on. Have a play around if you do alright or have any thoughts post em. As for a name if they work ok i thought QZXRWI 714Z and i’ll right some science bxxxxxxs on the packet 😀

  • #158042

    nice one. On it like a tramp on chips if this rain keeps up.

  • #158046

    cheers, ill give it a try and post results!

  • #158048

    Sounds interesting. How did you decide on the recipe and what made you decide to have a crack at it?

  • #158094

    I’m a keen cook and while watching Heston B’ i saw him use agar agar to set a dish. He went into brief detail on it’s properties.I then did further research. During a trip to the tackle shop i saw the JPZ’S read the basic ingredients and thought i’d try and come up with a similar bait (for personal use only…you never no)! I played around with various amounts of agar agar and came up with a flavoured jelly that you could cut out. The next step was to add the groundbait to try and stiffen up the jelly for fishing on the method.(rubbish to soft) When i saw the resulting pellet the penny dropped. I thought you can make a pellet to match any fine groundbait you are using very easily.Perfect for the pole Possibly great for carp that are gill feeding or anglers who want to use smallish bits of ‘paste’ (skimmers f1’s) on a convenital hair and quick stop (me) or on iffy days or in winter and for anglers who like to match up baits. It’s just another pellet idea but is more bespoke that you can make easily at home. You are just making a basic jelly terrine then adding anything that we would use as bait be it powdered or pureed; if done fine enough and then cutting bits out.
    The shrimp paste i’ve used for years in my paste mix and have had many 20’s during margin sessions. I really hope this works or i’m in for some stick !

  • #158095

    Can’t see you being in for any stick, unless you give it a go, you never know. Best of luck with it.

  • #158120

    I recall readin a chapter in a carp book in the 80’s (Kevin Maddox’s Carp Fever?) where jelly baits were made and used, so it’s not a new idea by any stretch, but it is interesting nonetheless. However, it may be worth bearing in mind that agar based pellets such as these will grow all sorts of microbes (bacteria and fungi are routinely grown in microbiology labs on agars), which will very quickly change the consistency and eventually degrade them. Unfortunately the boiling phase of the process will not kill these bacteria/fungi and the degradation process is likley to reach a fairly advanced stage anywhere between 1 and 3 days after making them unless frozen. Keeping in the fridge/cool bag will prolong this lifespan, though. It would be interesting to see what effect freezing has on them, too (I suspect they’ll turn to mush). All this suggests that these home made pellets would probably be best made the day before or on the day of use.

    Unless anyone has experienced this, it appears that the JPz pellets do not go off in this way, so if they are based on agar or gelatine, as suggested, it implies that they also contain pretty high levels of preservatives. In many food items, these preservatives are often sulphur compounds and various nitrates/nitrites and are generally considered undesirable in most foodstuffs for both human or animal consumption although I think a lot of shelf life boilies may also contain them (they certainly used to).

  • #158126

    TF_Anthonywaters
    Participant

    @Man of Kent wrote:

    I recall readin a chapter in a carp book in the 80’s (Kevin Maddox’s Carp Fever?) where jelly baits were made and used, so it’s not a new idea by any stretch, but it is interesting nonetheless. However, it may be worth bearing in mind that agar based pellets such as these will grow all sorts of microbes (bacteria and fungi are routinely grown in microbiology labs on agars), which will very quickly change the consistency and eventually degrade them. Unfortunately the boiling phase of the process will not kill these bacteria/fungi and the degradation process is likley to reach a fairly advanced stage anywhere between 1 and 3 days after making them unless frozen. Keeping in the fridge/cool bag will prolong this lifespan, though. It would be interesting to see what effect freezing has on them, too (I suspect they’ll turn to mush). All this suggests that these home made pellets would probably be best made the day before or on the day of use.

    Unless anyone has experienced this, it appears that the JPz pellets do not go off in this way, so if they are based on agar or gelatine, as suggested, it implies that they also contain pretty high levels of preservatives. In many food items, these preservatives are often sulphur compounds and various nitrates/nitrites and are generally considered undesirable in most foodstuffs for both human or animal consumption although I think a lot of shelf life boilies may also contain them (they certainly used to).

    True to all of the above, mycotoxins and other spoilage bacteria are reliant on AW, water availability, I think thats the secret in the formulation of JPz, limited water availability.

  • #158139

    Alcohol is mentioned in the list of ingredients on the jpz. This is a perfect antibacterial liquid and may be what the flavoured fluid that they sit in. Alcohol might be also used instead of or to reduce the liquid in the j.pz during manufacturing process.(just guessing) Salt is also a preservative.
    Agar is indeed used in labs to grow various dangerous bacteria and virus in petri dishes and are put there by a person in a white coat not by some random act. Agar is just a cheap form of controllable inert carbohydrate that’s why it’s probably used. Why would they use something that’s already contaminated?
    Anglers have been using mouldy cheese for many many years. Some chub anglers like to keep blue cheese paste all winter in there tackle box. This imo is far more likely to give you something nasty and is also protein based. I’ve stopped cutting the odd mouldy bit off a slice of bread since seeing what nasty’s that may contain and that it goes unseen right through the slice !
    Agar has been put on the plates of millions of people for years including the fat duck and el bulli both no 1 restaurants at some point. As was said Just use common sense and don’t store the baits for long and do so in a cool place (like any sauce of food). i’m not going into the bait business just making 40 or so baits so i don’t think it will do fish or waters any more harm. than other baits. Most anglers are fussy over baits and wouldn’t use stale stuff any how.
    I’ll stick some in the freezer and see what happens. Sorry if this sounded a bit off but i have man flu and have to make my own tea all day. Oh and well done the blues !!

  • #158101

    great idea where you can match your groundbait to a soft hooker pellet of the same it has to be worth a try, how many times have we heard use on the hook what you feed

  • #158152

    I hope there better than them FP1’s because they were crap and melted if you even farted near them.

  • #158153

    The recipe freezes/defrosts well if done when a solid block not as a cut out pellet.

  • #158155

    Anonymous

    Its a good idea mate. At least you are trying something different. I had some good catches a few years ago by solidifying and punching out pellets of Atomic cloud. Try this as well – they leak colour and flavour like crazy. Standard agar in labs is usually 15 g pe litre, which gives you a good solid medium, but you can go higher – upto around 3o-40 g per litre. Agar doesn’t have much nutrient value for microbes, but they will eventually grow on it, its the high level of nutrients you put into it for growing microbes, the agar is just the solidifying medium, so they will go off, but not straight away like a microbiological plate would (ie a couple of days).

    To slow spoilage, there are a host of compounds you can add – search the web, sodium citrate and citric acid are commonly used – think chemists so them, but not sure. But having said that, its pretty easy to knock up a fresh batch overnight, as you have shown.

    Nice to see someone thinking outside the box (;-)

  • #158206

    Anthonywaters: spot on regarding water activity! However, even 40-50g/L agar will have enough water activity to support microbial growth. It is also the water content that will cause it to break down when frozen, as ice crystals will form and disrupt the structure at a molecular level.
    Inyk Finger: don’t get me wrong, I think this is a very interesting idea and my comments are here to help understand the situation and dispel some myths and misunderstanding about what we’re dealing with here. You are also correct regarding the use of alcohol, but the type of alcohol used is important; short a carbon chain, and it will be too volatile to be effective, too long and it will become food source. I haven’t seen JPZs. Does it say what kind of alcohol is being used? You have also made an interesting observation regarding the freezing, which wasn’t quite what anticipated, but is relvent.
    My point about the microbial growth that could appear on the home made jellies is that it will break the pellet down and make them more difficult to use. Some microbes are actually beneficial (gut flora), but we will have no control over which organisms will grow on the jellies. That said, the numbers used are likely to be insufficient to cause any long term harm in any case. I had a great haul of specimen carp when i used to fish for whackers on cooked then fermented chick peas. The fermentation was caused by yeasts, which in this case gave them a particular attraction. The mouldy cheese for chub is also well recognised as a classic bait and I doubt any fish have been harmed as a result of eating it (humans also eat mouldy cheese).
    Agar is used to grow all sorts of microbes in the lab, not just dangerous ones, and they are only there as a result of a microbiologist because they need to identify what is there and so run the tests under controlled conditions to prevent non target organisms contaminating the test. However these microbes are opportunistic and will grow in any suitable conditions they encounter (take a look in your shower or cold water tank). The agar served in restaurants is likely to be fresh in order to avoid any bugs growing on it which could cause illness and loss of reputation. The stuff that grows on bread is usually a mould called Mucor. It’s not particularly dangerous, but is undesired on foodstuffs because it causes a change in taste, but it won’t harm you.
    In adding various components like flavours and/or groundbaits & powders, we are actually going to add in a huge number of bacteria, yeasts and moulds and many of them will not be killed by the boiling process alone. They will therefore survive and grow because the aforementioned ingredients become a food source in addition to the agar itself. Prof: you are largely correct, but the numbers of organisms we will add are likely to generally be far more than some microbiologists will encounter (not, for example, those in pathology labs) and the baits are not produced or stored in controlled manners, so I believe they are likely to be more contaminated than most lab plates, which can also reduce growth of certain organisms in order to select for the target species. Good point about citrates; there are lots of different preservatives that could be used, but at some point it could become a preservative based bait rather than one that would appeal to the fish.
    Sorry for the essay: good discussion topic!

  • #158218

    /cough
    so if i make some, will they last me a weekend, can i freeze em, and will they kill me if i eat em? :rolleyes:

  • #158247

    I didn’t think it was going to get this complicated ! We have been using gelatine in pellets for years. Gelatine is a protein based jelly and agar is a carbohydrate based jelly add either to a bait mix and it will decay fairly quickly ? I would make them fresh and use them over 2 days keep them in a fridge when not fishing. If your going to freeze them then make them fresh then freeze the uncut gel whole when the gel is cold. Defrost in the fridge.I would just treat them like any meat product but just DON’T put them in your sandwiches ! The gel does crack a bit if you don’t use a strong container such as a bait box. I would punch them out on the bank after checking they are firm enough when set (usually testable after a hour). Just think bread punch. I’ve been playing around with this idea for a while and haven’t died yet and the mix isn’t radio active,(unlike Brazil nuts) sorry this sounds flippant.
    Thanks so much for everybody’s imput, knowledge and hope that the’ prof ‘and ‘man of Kent ‘ will agree that the above is the best way of using an unpreserved bait safely as they both seem to have more than a few science based qualifications than me. Glad ‘man of Kent’ has enjoyed the thread i’m sure we will get back to the usual £1000 pole debate soon…. (daiwa xr5 brilliant value)

  • #158249

    TF_baitchef
    Participant

    There is a far simpler way to create loads of these agar based jelly pellets although they will be round and not cylindrical. you can make enough to feed as well as use on the hook. You will need an empty squeezy bottle and a container of cold vegetable oil. Simply drip the liquid jell into the oil and as it falls it will solidify, creating round baits that will all settle at the bottom. bigger the drip, bigger the pellet. Drain them off from the oil through a sieve and away you go.

  • #158250

    TF_baitchef
    Participant

    The added bonus will be that they look like fish eggs, hell you could even flavour and colour them if you like.

  • #158266

    Yes your right. I’ve seen it done to create false flavoured ‘cavier’. Cold wet weekend coming up…..oh here i go again !!

  • #161212

    I read this discussion with mounting interest and wonder how well they worked at catching fish. So I have joined up and await the news with all the anticipation that an old angler can muster, (currently marooned in Scotland without a rod or reel)

  • #161239

    TF_bigfella
    Participant

    Whats happening !!!!!!……….Bring back casters and maggot (good traditional baits) and rely on angling skills

  • #161250

    The bait was for carp as an alternative to jelly pellets but is more like a really soft paste that stays on a quick stop. I have used it twice during a warm weekend early summer and had to watch the fish spawning only fluked one on maggot on the drop. It’s a long drive to the venue and i’ve not been back as it’s prone to flooding. The baits i’ve caught on or used the most of this season are dead reds,caster and hemp and tares all fished on big natural waters for bream and roach on sensible light kit using a lot of different methods I like alot of anglers like the make stuff be it bait or bits of kit.If they didn’t you would still be using a bent pin and worms bigfella.There is always skill (unless you fish alders farm and the like) and no magic guaranteed fish catching bait no matter what the science behind it is bigfella.
    I have’nt given up on the idea and have planned to go back in sept it should work any where paste (radical !) works…… and oh the recipe did’nt put me in hospital either.

  • #161255

    Keen to see how you are developing these. One thing of note is that JPz pellets don’t contain any gelatine, not sure if this makes any difference in how you’re developing the pellets / paste

  • #314406

    Maia Fernandez
    Participant

    Love to comment on Google it.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.