Pre-match ‘gardening’

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    • #55679

      Anonymous

      At the Makins Match prior to the all in everybody around me starts cutting branches back and trimming grass to get a clear view of their margins swims. This I can live with but the next thing was scraping their margins with landing nets ‘to check for roots’. Checking for roots my ar8se!! They meant stirring the bottom up. This group included one well known sponsored angler. This is nothing short of cheating and all the ‘anglers’ I could see were doing it. Now this isn’t sour grapes because I battered them all anyway.

      Yesterday at the Partridge Match This some joker actualy walks onto an island to get to his far bank margin then steps into the lake and with a small shovel digs himself a nice flat spot on the far bank slope!!!!!

      What do you guys think is or isn’t acceptable. I think the above goings on break a number of NFA rules never mind not being in the spirit of things.

    • #167850

      Angling Trust/NFA rules or whatever is understood to be the governing criteria for the match or fishery is what is to be upheld period. IF within those rules bankside topiary is not allowed then you are right to challenge any such actions and bring this to the fishery and match organisers attention. IF they do nothing, you have two choices to worry about, do nothing yourself or do something. If you choose to do nothing else you’ve nothing to worry about. If you choose to do something, you have two things to worry about. Can you beat them, or can they beat you? If you can beat them, you have nothing to worry about. If they can beat you, you have only two things to worry about. Will it hurt you or will it not? If won’t hurt you then you’ve nothing to worry about. If it will hurt you then you’ve only two things to worry about……………..

      Name and shame them, this sort of digging, raking and chopping out far bank swims is not their prerogative no matter how well known or up their own ego’s they are.

    • #167851

      Gardening I don’t have a problem with. Raking landing nets in the margin and digging a flat spot with a shovel is an absolute joke. Should never be allowed!

    • #167855

      Raking your landing net in the margins is bad enough , but digging a flat spot with a spade , I cant believe anyone would allow it to happen , you might aswell be pre-baiting before the all-in :confused: :confused: :confused:

    • #167856

      TF_Anthonywaters
      Participant

      Checking for ,roots with a landing net ! Blatant cheating I don’t object to a bit of trimming but checking for roots should be done by dragging your plummet around.

    • #167829

      its cheating full stop and should be banned 😡

    • #167838

      TF_geepster
      Participant

      Cheating, end of.

    • #167841

      CIU match rules state (to paraphrase) no angler shall break the water before the official match starting time with the exception of getting water to mix groundbait & plumb the depth/set the float.
      I’m sure these are NFA rules.
      Some years ago my mate fell in before the match started, and an over officious official threatened to disqualify him.
      This so called gardening is a blatant flouting of rules, where will it all end!!!!!!
      Regards Peter.

    • #167821

      Agent X in this month’s match fishing mag agrees with you. So far nobody is supporting it!

    • #167823

      Its cheating but in defence of those involved it will carry on until someone is disqualified.
      Clint at W/A reads the rules before evety match so no one should be in any doubt as to what is and is not acceptable. I would guess he has disqualified more anglers than anywhere else.
      I think at a Mallory match a few years back they drew the night before and far bank margin landscaping then took place in preparation for a feeder bagging session the following day.
      Some will stop at nothing to gain advantage, very sad.
      My own take on this would be to allow some bankside clearing but in no way allow dragging/landscaping the bottom.
      I think the existing model match rules are pretty clear.

    • #168004

      TF_brabham1707
      Participant

      I personally think that this is going way too far. I have heard (i wasnt fishing) that on saturdays match this qualifier at lindholme lakes the winner went round onto the far bank and dug a hole out with a shovel so that he could get into the right depth and also another angler in another peg was in the lake in chest waders digging a hole with a shovel!!
      What is match fishing coming to? For anglers of this quality doing this is utter madness.
      Neil at lindholme probably doesnt mind this, but will Phil Briscoe allow this in the final???

    • #168005

      i sat directly behind one of the anglers supposedly using a spade and in waders at lindholme on saturday. yes he used waders as it would not have been safe to clear some reeds , branches etc from his margin swim without getting in lake – this was done as much for fish safety as anything else as any carp hooked would have potentially got tethered in reeds by line . He defenitely did not use a spade . Neil did come round to see what had been done and he agreed that what he had done was fine .

      i did not clear my margin swim – it had been done earlier in week by another angler before a match otherwise i would have done so myself.

    • #168006

      TF_brabham1707
      Participant

      That is fair enough if if the angler with the waders did not use a spade, but shouldnt the fishery manager be responsible for clearing snags so big that they pose a threat to fish welfare? Anglers shouldnt have to do this when they are paying to fish.
      Where does this all end??
      Will you be able to pull the lillys out on the shallow bank of the match lake at larford in the match this final as the fish do tend to snag you in them?

    • #168007

      brabham 1707, if you weren’t there on saturday do you think you should be spreading rumours and hearsay? My mate won the qualifier and I don’t think he’ll be too happy when I tell him people are saying bad things about his win.

    • #168148

      @chrismoorhead wrote:

      I see nothing wrong with gardening to be totally honest
      if the fishery owners don’t trim back or employ the relevant people they need
      what do they expect
      you can be assured that “gardening” will be next on the banned board along with every other method that catches you fish

      by the way cutnut well put mate enjoyed reading the poetry looooool

      So would you called getting down on belly .putting hand into water to elbow or deeper on mudline in margin to remove any roots then scooping away and making a flat spot in margin with your hand ,gardening chris ?? this is allowed a a venue local to me but to me its cheating. I see nothing wrong with someone trimming a bit of reed away so he can see his float but the aforementioned is ridiculous. Unless the fishery owner does it BUT not just before a match.

    • #168152

      "H"…
      Participant

      only on commercials!!!! 🙁

    • #168161

      Anonymous

      I don’t agree with any gardening that disturbs the “bed” of the swim. Any decent fishery should already be well maintained and the owners should be doing the gardneing themselves leaving no grey ares – all competitors should fish with the swim in front of them and no gardening is permitted – but if it’s not clear in the rules – who cares what i agree or don’t agree with…..?

      At Cudmore a few weeks ago – (and this is no exaggeration!!!) the bloke 3 pegs up from me on Suez – got a chainsaw!! yes a chainsaw out of his van – cut a small tree down and then went back to his van, got a petrol strimmer out and cut all the reeds and grass back so he could see the net hole to his right – i was on the same peg the week before and couldn’t fish to the right as i hadn’t brought my “Maver Mower” or Dynamite Swim stRim with me.

      But as others have said – if the fishery don’t stop it or docuement that it’s not permitted- it’s each to their own.

      Andy is a top angler and was simply gaining any advantage he could WITHIN THE RULES” i dare say he may have won the match anyway if a gardening rule was in place but without it – what did he do wrong?? it’s irrelevant what our opinions are…

    • #168199

      I personally disagree with ANY sort of gardening that is to do with disturbing the water & water bed as when I was a youngster this was a big advantage as we used to rake the bottom although back then this was a killer for tench but surely this is the same for those lovely fresh water pigs we enjoy catching.

      BAN THE BELLAMY TACTICS……if there is no margin swim hard luck….as they say’its the luck of the draw’ fellas.

    • #168203

      Anonymous

      The issue is all of the making of the fishery owners/managers and there staff. We pay our peg fee to the fishery. The least we should expect is for the margin banks to be well maintained and cut back regularly and any lost tackle removed from over hanging trees, bushes or reeds/weeds. If the fishery dont do the job. Its left to individual anglers to do the job as they see fit.

      Getting in the water in wadders and digging out a margin swim is a bit over the top but i,ve seen it done. Not sure i was happy about it at the time but the peg should never have been pegged in the match in the first place. Fishery taking the __ss as usual. It was over grown and unfit for angling in a match sitution. The said angler did a good job of making the peg fishable again but it should have been the job of the fishery before being pegged in a match. The said angler did catch a few fish but did not win the match on that occation. Would have been murder if he had of won.

      I have no issue in anglers getting there hands in the water and removing anything that is in the water that is in the way of reasonable access to the margin bank. However, i attempt to not disturbe the bottom if possible. Not sure its an advantage in having the bottom disturbed on a fishery that is very coloured in the first place as is normally the case in the summer on most fisheries. Every angler has the same option open to them to do some reasonable gardening if needed. Its easy to do and there is no advantage if every angler is allowed to do the same things.

    • #168263

      TF_AnglerPaul_M
      Participant

      Ha, I loved reading “I battered them anyway”. it’s cheating. Name and shame said sponsored angler! I’ve fished loads of matches with some old school Welsh internationals and the amount of “tricks” I have seen is unreal. Bank pruning, splashing, tweaking/knocking branches to create movements in the margin, weed rakes. Someone once accused a chap of banding on pellets to his weed rake. People get up to all sorts to try and win, next time take a photo and send it to someone who will publicise it!

    • #168268

      In reading some of the comments on here I am begining to understand why I have stopped fishing matches. Just about all of the issues are covered under model match rules and I come from a generation of anglers that treat these rules with reverence.
      In my view allowing things like plumbing up does not include chucking a bomb all over looking for liners in winter, a tactic I have seen used and in fact advocated by some top anglers. Its cheating because you are not plumbing! As for wading in the margins to clear a peg this too is not allowed. I dont care if the fishery owner says its ok, maybe he/she does not understand what model match rules say.
      Just to absolutely clarify my interpretation of the rules, you can prune vegitation but not disturb the water other than to wet groundbait set your keepnet and plumb up. Any angler who does not understand what this means should not be fishing, period.
      On rivers/veunes with un prepared pegs my understanding is you can wade up to your knees only to set your box/nets etc and I can recall anglers in the past being disqualified for not adhering to this rule. I apologise if this rule has changed but that was always my understanding.
      Disturbing the lake bed to create a cloud is a brilliant tactic to get inquisitive lumps into your peg and I think most of the tricks being employed are for this reason alone whatever anyone says, it cheating.

    • #168269

      surely gardening should be done by the fishery as you pay enough to fish them and be be honest it sounds like this is a loophole in the rulebook and until the rule is written in stone will continue .Anglers that are doing this know exactly what the advantages are to their pegs yet i didn’t see any of the anglers gardening at cudmore in front cameras and until the fishery outlaws the use of garden tools i’m afraid you have to put up with it as it has no set rules against them at the minute 😉

    • #168272

      Well you want to try fishing my local canal !!!!
      We went last week and the bankside vegetation was over 4 foot high when we rung the bailiff we were given this excuse.
      ” we were told we could not cut the banks back due to breeding birds “
      When I asked him if he had ever seen birds nesting on the cycle path he said no but we can cut some swims if we like!!!
      We came home and contacted the local EA but they were too busy and said it is the councils responsibility.
      To cut a long story short NO ONE has done nothing all winter so this venue (the only one close enough for me to fish ( I am disabled ) is totally unfishable at my favourite place .
      But the following week in the Chichester Observer there was a match report that said the match fished well and everyone had a great day !!!!
      Yup you guessed it the took a brushcutter just to where the match was pegged the rest off us will just have to do a spot of gardening!!!
      Well I have arranged for a couple of my mates to go and sort it !
      Nothing over two inches was left!!
      I am waiting to see the bailiff and tell him “If you can’t do it we will .We pay to fish here!!”
      Was I wrong?? I think not!!
      Back to the original post.
      Check the match rules about altering swims and as for string up the bottom that must count as preparing the swim/pre-baiting???
      As a former fisheries officer I made sure all snags and swims were ready for a match two weeks before and patrolled daily to ensure no pre-baiting was being done and if I suspected it was I would close that swim.
      As for wading that was an instant ban as my waters were gravel pits and specimen lakes so rule were enforce across the board.
      I have never done match fishing but my wife does and she would never do any of the tricks mentioned in this thread.
      If this is the way matches are run these days it is a cheats paradise no one angling is in decline!!!!
      As for bankside pruning if an over head branch is blocking you casting the use a pole or side cast.
      I was taught that a good angler uses water craft to catch fish not tricks of the trade 😡 😡 😡

    • #168279

      Thanks for the offer Chris but I dont even drive near Canklow let alone think of parking up and fishing there!!
      I am a member of a private local club but mostly visit the Glebe or Whiteacres now.
      I only fish matches I organise myself at Messingham, the best in the North in my opinion by some margin.

    • #168299

      Anonymous

      @Cutnut wrote:

      Angling Trust/NFA rules or whatever is understood to be the governing criteria for the match or fishery is what is to be upheld period. IF within those rules bankside topiary is not allowed then you are right to challenge any such actions and bring this to the fishery and match organisers attention. IF they do nothing, you have two choices to worry about, do nothing yourself or do something. If you choose to do nothing else you’ve nothing to worry about. If you choose to do something, you have two things to worry about. Can you beat them, or can they beat you? If you can beat them, you have nothing to worry about. If they can beat you, you have only two things to worry about. Will it hurt you or will it not? If won’t hurt you then you’ve nothing to worry about. If it will hurt you then you’ve only two things to worry about……………..

      .

      now that’s an answer….. 😀

    • #168300

      @squeaky roller wrote:

      @Cutnut wrote:

      Angling Trust/NFA rules or whatever is understood to be the governing criteria for the match or fishery is what is to be upheld period. IF within those rules bankside topiary is not allowed then you are right to challenge any such actions and bring this to the fishery and match organisers attention. IF they do nothing, you have two choices to worry about, do nothing yourself or do something. If you choose to do nothing else you’ve nothing to worry about. If you choose to do something, you have two things to worry about. Can you beat them, or can they beat you? If you can beat them, you have nothing to worry about. If they can beat you, you have only two things to worry about. Will it hurt you or will it not? If won’t hurt you then you’ve nothing to worry about. If it will hurt you then you’ve only two things to worry about……………..

      .

      now that’s an answer….. 😀

      so that’s what we pay them for :confused: :confused: :confused:

    • #168301

      @joffmiester wrote:

      @squeaky roller wrote:

      @Cutnut wrote:

      Angling Trust/NFA rules or whatever is understood to be the governing criteria for the match or fishery is what is to be upheld period. IF within those rules bankside topiary is not allowed then you are right to challenge any such actions and bring this to the fishery and match organisers attention. IF they do nothing, you have two choices to worry about, do nothing yourself or do something. If you choose to do nothing else you’ve nothing to worry about. If you choose to do something, you have two things to worry about. Can you beat them, or can they beat you? If you can beat them, you have nothing to worry about. If they can beat you, you have only two things to worry about. Will it hurt you or will it not? If won’t hurt you then you’ve nothing to worry about. If it will hurt you then you’ve only two things to worry about……………..

      .

      now that’s an answer….. 😀

      There is always a Third Choice pack you kit and be a spectator or just do the best you can and check the venue before booking in for the match next time 😮
      so that’s what we pay them for :confused: :confused: :confused:

    • #168302

      Keep smiling and keep battering them the honest anglers always win in the long run. I bet they don’t catch any proper lumps on the first put in like you would if you left the margins alone. If in doubt push the wankers in that’ll stir the swim up properly!!!

    • #168331

      [attachment=0:3565zpwt]selsey to donington.jpg[/attachment:3565zpwt][attachment=1:3565zpwt]canal 3.jpg[/attachment:3565zpwt] @smeagal wrote:

      Well you want to try fishing my local canal !!!!
      We went last week and the bankside vegetation was over 4 foot high when we rung the bailiff we were given this excuse.
      ” we were told we could not cut the banks back due to breeding birds “
      When I asked him if he had ever seen birds nesting on the cycle path he said no but we can cut some swims if we like!!!
      We came home and contacted the local EA but they were too busy and said it is the councils responsibility.
      To cut a long story short NO ONE has done nothing all winter so this venue (the only one close enough for me to fish ( I am disabled ) is totally unfishable at my favourite place .
      But the following week in the Chichester Observer there was a match report that said the match fished well and everyone had a great day !!!!
      Yup you guessed it the took a brushcutter just to where the match was pegged the rest off us will just have to do a spot of gardening!!!
      Well I have arranged for a couple of my mates to go and sort it !
      Nothing over two inches was left!!
      I am waiting to see the bailiff and tell him “If you can’t do it we will .We pay to fish here!!”
      Was I wrong?? I think not!!
      Back to the original post.
      Check the match rules about altering swims and as for string up the bottom that must count as preparing the swim/pre-baiting???
      As a former fisheries officer I made sure all snags and swims were ready for a match two weeks before and patrolled daily to ensure no pre-baiting was being done and if I suspected it was I would close that swim.
      As for wading that was an instant ban as my waters were gravel pits and specimen lakes so rule were enforce across the board.
      I have never done match fishing but my wife does and she would never do any of the tricks mentioned in this thread.
      If this is the way matches are run these days it is a cheats paradise no one angling is in decline!!!!
      As for bankside pruning if an over head branch is blocking you casting the use a pole or side cast.
      I was taught that a good angler uses water craft to catch fish not tricks of the trade 😡 😡 😡

      Sorry Peeps forgot to add the pic’s 😡

    • #168367

      i think you will find the answer to this question as one angler found out at herronbrook last week 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

    • #168387

      The Angling Trust Model Match Rules don’t apply to all matches, and they clash with venue rules at a lot of commercials. If a commie with it’s own rules hosts a big event fished to the AT Model Rules frankly the overlap of rules leaves a lot of room for problems.

      Gardening seems to be excluded by the Model rules in the view of some who’ve posted on this thread. Here’s the bit of the Model rules that looks relevant to me (a cut & paste, so it’s word for word):

      13. Before the starting signal no competitor must on any account groundbait or loose feed the swim but will be allowed to wet a line, plumb the depth and test the float, mix and wt groundbait, clear his/her ground of weed or obstructions and position his/her equipment. On no account must a feeder be used before the starting signal. A ledger weight may be cast to find depth and distance etc, but a no time must the line be left in the water whilst continuing to set up other tackle.

      So isn’t it ok to clear the ground within your boundries? If anyones taking the rule to mean just the bit of the peg you sit on, that’s not what it says is it?

    • #168396

      TF_Anthonywaters
      Participant

      If you start getting in the pond and churning the bottom up wearing chest waders and dragging rushes out by their roots you will certainly have an advantage your swim will be all coloured and the blood worm etc will be disturbed you might swell have gone down the margin with a 250ml pot of bait its rule bending and you can see why people are upset

    • #168400

      TF_Anthonywaters
      Participant

      @brabham1707 wrote:

      I personally think that this is going way too far. I have heard (i wasnt fishing) that on saturdays match this qualifier at lindholme lakes the winner went round onto the far bank and dug a hole out with a shovel so that he could get into the right depth and also another angler in another peg was in the lake in chest waders digging a hole with a shovel!!
      What is match fishing coming to? For anglers of this quality doing this is utter madness.
      Neil at lindholme probably doesnt mind this, but will Phil Briscoe allow this in the final???

      This was the bit I was referring to Chris the guy that went round in chest waders

    • #168401

      Ive used ducks to stir the bottom for years. The cloud lasts all day as well as long as the ducks are hungry.. Am i a cheat? Cant see any problem with gardening. Pulling weeds out is not that effective. Trimming them can do no harm. See it as fair game as long as everyone can do it. Carp at this time of year definitely want the shallow water. If you havent got it because of an errant weed or two and next door has its game over.

    • #168404

      TF_Anthonywaters
      Participant

      End of conversation before its goes too far

    • #168418

      @joffmiester wrote:

      i think you will find the answer to this question as one angler found out at herronbrook last week 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

      Joff, can you enlighten us, what went on at Heronbrook???

    • #168421

      unfortantly a well known angler did a bit of gardening and paid the price for not listening to the rules being read out [not sure if he could of won it as well]
      A great shame really as i heard it fished brilliantly over the week there was 130 weights over 100lb

    • #168422

      These kind of actions drive new match anglers away.
      They will only put up with being pools fodder for a couple of times before stopping fishing matches altogether!!
      you are cutting your noses off to spite your faces and soon match angling will die off if new blood is not encouraged!! 😡 😡 😡

    • #168416

      @joffmiester wrote:

      unfortantly a well known angler did a bit of gardening and paid the price for not listening to the rules being read out [not sure if he could of won it as well]
      A great shame really as i heard it fished brilliantly over the week there was 130 weights over 100lb

      He didn’t actually do any gardening. He was going to dig back the margin because it was undercut but when he realised it was too deep he didn’t bother. He didnt even fish the margin in case anyone complained and went on to smash the lake record fishing shallow. Unfortunately the person on the next peg ran off and told the owner. So his weight didnt count and cost him the festival. It’s a shame that people have to try and get a better angler disqualified because theyre not good enough to compete 😡

    • #168432

      What is it all coming to now. I have too much gear to take with me without having to take shears, spade, shovel, fork, hoe, strimmer, chainsaw, excavator, jcb, dumptruck (oops, we all ready have one of those that come with us LOL).

      There is another venue where people are fishing the margins and what they are doing is to put their hands in the lake to pull out any fine roots, then they are flattening said margin swim with their hands. I won’t be going as:

      1, I can’t be arsed with all this faffing about.
      2. it takes the spirit out of fishing.

      Why doesn’t the venue owner do this in every peg (all 90 of them!).

      I have also got emails from friends that say that some people will now not fish said venue as it is playing into a couple of anglers hands (so to speak).

      The luck of the draw dictates what you can and can’t do. I think that you should not be able to break the water to do any pre-match gardening and it is at the discretion of the venue owners with regards to bankside ‘gardening’.

      All venue owners need to say that enough is enough, no more gardening!!!!

    • #168434

      So why was said angler disqualified? If he was going to do something but didnt surely no rules were broken?
      I am with the guys who argue this is very much against the spirit of angling.

    • #168435

      TF_carpski
      Participant

      I was on the said festival. Neil (the owner) clearly stated on the monday morning b4 we drew, we were all lined up in the cafe, NO digging, gardening pulling up roots of any kind to be done what so ever. A bit of light trimming was allowed ie cutting the grass down to the roots so you could see youre float etc but that was it.
      Why the said angler took a small shovel!!!!!! to his peg in the first place is quite beyond me and other anglers couldn’t believe it either. He was seen digging into the ground to make a shelf for himself.
      YEP mr bennet would of walked the festival if he hadn’t of done what he did, he’s that good. The other 89 of us all stuck to the rules that were laid down. That mistake only cost him best part of £2000 😮

    • #168436

      again it was a great shame but a lesson learned it wasn’t just the angler next to him there were several written complains as well . i wasn’t there but have been told by some very good friends and from the point of the fishery owner he has not been named because he didn’t want it to spoil the festival as it had been the best ever and the anglers in the frame deserved all the coverage

      again if anyone has a problem with gardening surely you should ask at the draw if it’s allowed or not 😉

    • #168437

      It was my understanding that the rules for each match were read prior to the draw. and all anglers had to agree.
      if an angler does not like his peg e can asked to be moved if a spare is available.
      but under no excuse can gardening be allowed and keep nets and landing nets should not enter the water before the whistle sounds. that’s my personal take on matches.

    • #168438

      The last few posts have certainly clarified the confusion. Thankyou.
      It must be tough for any fishery to disqualify anyone but to make it fair to everyone rules must be up held. Anyone denying knowlege of rules only has themselves to blame, especially if they are read out at the draw.
      End of story for me, I hope all match organises take heed, allow individuals to attempt to take advantage at your peril.
      All everyone wants is a fair natch with everyone understanding and fishing within the rules allowed.

    • #168445

      TF_badger
      Participant

      It makes you wonder how far folk will go to gain an advantage. What next flippers and a snorkel to do some land shaping on the far bank?

    • #168448

      Dont even know why im bothering to post something on this load of thread about commercials but hey ho just shows what a load of they are .

    • #168449

      TF_badger
      Participant

      @Dodge wrote:

      Dont even know why im bothering to post something on this load of bollox thread about bollox commercials but hey ho just shows what a load of bollox they are .

      Excellent contribution to the thread 🙁

    • #168450

      @badger wrote:

      @Dodge wrote:

      Dont even know why im bothering to post something on this load of bollox thread about bollox commercials but hey ho just shows what a load of bollox they are .

      Excellent contribution to the thread 🙁

      Well there you go . Its a load of bollox and match angling has become a load of bollox …… is angling now the right word ? hook a duck maybe ? chuckin a method out ? self hooking ? mong method ? yepp its all bollox .

    • #168453

      Anonymous

      Now im no do gooder angler but, i went to lindeholme in the maver match this a few weeks ago, and after seeing blokes get in the lake with shovels and making shelves in the bottom, far bank, treading on the inside ledge to form flat spots,it seems that the first stages of just flattening a few near bank reeds or plucking out a few dead floating debris has, as usual, been dramatically blown out of all proportion…If they tried it on my local they would get their head chewed offf…to me its a massive form of cheating but also it allows corrosion of the bank as the reeds are there to protect it from the continuous wind.To me the angler digging dgets a huge advantage as digging forms a fresh area full of small insects etc and must attract fish ready for the start,giving the cheat a lovely head start on all others…Yet another little scam from anglers that have to cheat a bit to get their hands on the measly few quid for first…..

    • #168454

      TF_badger
      Participant

      @punchmeat wrote:

      Now im no do gooder angler but, i went to lindeholme in the maver match this a few weeks ago, and after seeing blokes get in the lake with shovels and making shelves in the bottom, far bank, treading on the inside ledge to form flat spots,it seems that the first stages of just flattening a few near bank reeds or plucking out a few dead floating debris has, as usual, been dramatically blown out of all proportion…If they tried it on my local they would get their head chewed offf…to me its a massive form of cheating but also it allows corrosion of the bank as the reeds are there to protect it from the continuous wind.To me the angler digging dgets a huge advantage as digging forms a fresh area full of small insects etc and must attract fish ready for the start,giving the cheat a lovely head start on all others…Yet another little scam from anglers that have to cheat a bit to get their hands on the measly few quid for first…..

      Maybe thats the problem, £50,000 (Maver Match) is hardly a measly few quid.

    • #168455

      @punchmeat wrote:

      Now im no do gooder angler but, i went to lindeholme in the maver match this a few weeks ago, and after seeing blokes get in the lake with shovels and making shelves in the bottom, far bank, treading on the inside ledge to form flat spots,it seems that the first stages of just flattening a few near bank reeds or plucking out a few dead floating debris has, as usual, been dramatically blown out of all proportion…If they tried it on my local they would get their head chewed offf…to me its a massive form of cheating but also it allows corrosion of the bank as the reeds are there to protect it from the continuous wind.To me the angler digging dgets a huge advantage as digging forms a fresh area full of small insects etc and must attract fish ready for the start,giving the cheat a lovely head start on all others…Yet another little scam from anglers that have to cheat a bit to get their hands on the measly few quid for first…..

      I’m surprised the fisheries allow it full stop these anglers don’t look any future than there own gain the bigger picture is it you have 10 anglers a day doing it thats 70 a week fulling in a section of the lake .when the lake becomes a mess they will just up tools and move on to the next one HARDLY FAIR AND THE FISHERY

    • #168458

      @joffmiester wrote:

      @punchmeat wrote:

      Now im no do gooder angler but, i went to lindeholme in the maver match this a few weeks ago, and after seeing blokes get in the lake with shovels and making shelves in the bottom, far bank, treading on the inside ledge to form flat spots,it seems that the first stages of just flattening a few near bank reeds or plucking out a few dead floating debris has, as usual, been dramatically blown out of all proportion…If they tried it on my local they would get their head chewed offf…to me its a massive form of cheating but also it allows corrosion of the bank as the reeds are there to protect it from the continuous wind.To me the angler digging dgets a huge advantage as digging forms a fresh area full of small insects etc and must attract fish ready for the start,giving the cheat a lovely head start on all others…Yet another little scam from anglers that have to cheat a bit to get their hands on the measly few quid for first…..

      I’m surprised the fisheries allow it full stop these anglers don’t look any future than there own gain the bigger picture is it you have 10 anglers a day doing it thats 70 a week fulling in a section of the lake .when the lake becomes a mess they will just up tools and move on to the next one HARDLY FAIR AND THE FISHERY

      And not healthy for fish or owner!!!
      What follows is true and I have not illuminated any of the facts
      I spent 10 years fighting with my local clubs committee to introduce a bait ban and a dip at every venue.Why?
      match anglers feed too much and around to many fisheries and most times the nest have not been dry enough to eliminate diseases.
      From small ponds to 15 acre gravel its if you don’t include both you risk fish kills of epic proportions!!
      If each angler put in 2 kilos of bait in each swim on a daily basis that 490 kilos of bait sitting on the bottom of the lake and not all will be eaten and bollies take ages to breakdown.when they do breakdown the act as miracle grow for algae and weeds which it not tackled can cost the owner pounds in dead fish.
      After a major fish kill I in conjunction with the EA and Portsmouth Uni undertook a 5 years sampling and water test survey before and after the bait ban was .introduced.
      We also took samples of all the insects and invertebrate and took core samples which were all sent away for independent testing.
      The results shocked us too our boots!! in just 10 of 100 samples life was found to be within acceptable lints the rest were basically just a growth hormone for algae and the worst one was yet to come 5 samples showed traces of a deadly algae Prednesium Parvum 🙁
      What is that you say ? It is a killer which came from the sea but in brackish over over nitrated waters a killer waiting to strike i cannot be treated and the only way to kill it it to scarf the bed of the lake and leave dry for at least a year then relay the bed with fresh tested blue clay and and can strike at any time and what it does is if t feels under threat it release’s a nerve toxin and a paralysis toxin which first stuns the fish and then destroys the gills.
      We then had to find the source and checking back through club records the sea had topped the dam wall and flooded the fishery 20 years before and the did nothing.
      The place is no longer a fishery as the wall still leaks and they did not think it warranted the cost to keep it open!!!
      So please limit your amount of ground-baits and always dip your nets.

    • #168460

      Smeagol,
      is that place Hillsea Moat?

      Used to fish it over 40 yrs ago when a member, and seem to recall hearing about the sea flood and damage.
      Used to have nice caster roach and a few skimmers as i recall.

      What stock species is in it have in now?

    • #168463

      @wightangler wrote:

      Smeagol,
      is that place Hillsea Moat?

      Used to fish it over 40 yrs ago when a member, and seem to recall hearing about the sea flood and damage.
      Used to have nice caster roach and a few skimmers as i recall.

      What stock species is in it have in now?

      None!!
      They would not pay £1500 to get it done so closed it and never restocked either moat and went a leased another lake
      There waters are devoid of fish and the membership as I am informed has gone elsewhere.
      So when my wife and I resined from the committee all maintenance work stopped and we didn’t rejoin and just fish for pleasure these days

    • #168468

      TF_Bagging10
      Participant
      carpski wrote:
      I was on the said festival. Neil (the owner) clearly stated on the monday morning b4 we drew, we were all lined up in the cafe, NO digging, gardening pulling up roots of any kind to be done what so ever. A bit of light trimming was allowed ie cutting the grass down to the roots so you could see youre float etc but that was it.
      Why the said angler took a small shovel!!!!!! to his peg in the first place is quite beyond me and other anglers couldn’t believe it either. He was seen digging into the ground to make a shelf for himself.
      YEP mr bennet would of walked the festival if he hadn’t of done what he did, he’s that good. The other 89 of us all stuck to the rules that were laid down. That mistake only cost him best part of £2000 😮

      He was seen with sheers and never at any point did he use the shovel the angler on next peg ran to Neil to complain From which is to that anglers prerogative if he feels something un to order is happening. From this before a line was wetted Neil came to said angler and asked what he was doing and it come to the point were a mis understanding in rules came apparent . From this Bennett who had not made any shelf but instead gave up on it due to the undercut depth decided to go nowhere near the edge line to prevent controversy. He then went on to break the record shallow put 70 odd pound on the next angler who complained without going near the edge prob would av had over 300 pound if he had done.! He then got weighed in and found out later that night after many had there two pennies worth in to gain more pennies to disqualify him from that day . How is that a gentlemen way to disqualify some1. Clearly done to help regulars get extra points no way should he have been disqualified in that way
      Now I understand rules should not be broken however a simple mistake and confusion on a rule surely logic should have took over and due to not fishing the edge due to not wanting to cause any problems his result should have been allowed to stand.
      Regarding this gardening rule I understand the advantage and dug out flat spot has upon the next angler who has not got this flat spot in his peg . The main purpose is the prevention of foul hooking fish . Surely fishery owners who implement such gardening rule has to in turn understand the depth of waters required within the summer months needed to fish on the deck down edges and across to far banks and should try to make it as fair as possible find these kind of depths in all pegs. Surely this is done for the well being of fish also due to fishing 3 ft down an edge that has not been gardened foul Hooking fish all day is not good for angler or fish. Bottomline is correct it does give an advantage but if there’s no rules about it at fisherys and every angler in theory can do it due to owners not keeping there water to seasonal standards then it is the owner that needs to be looked at not the angler . If these rules are put into place which in my opinion for the sanity of all should be then I don’t think anglers are asking to much to expect the fishery to be kept to a high seasonal standard
      P.s regarding Bennett the kids a new breed of bagging angler like Jamie Hughes Andy geldart James dent and the heronbrook situation was swept under rug no way should he have been disqualified

    • #168469

      TF_carpski
      Participant

      Hmmm so why would the angler on next peg make up such a story? And potentionally have his reputation tarnished! Andy even admitted doing it! The vegetation was clean enough to get tight into the bank, ok if you stick you’re hand in and have a root around and feel that it’s undercut then there’s nothing you can do it will be like that on most pegs on the inside and across on the far shelf. Just gotta get on with it and try to sus out how to catch em in the mouth and not foul hook em, that’s what fishing is all about trying to think like a fish.
      And taking shears with you whats that all about! So youre loading youre gear up on the way to youre peg….box,net bag,rod bag,carryall,rods,cool bag etc etc and then Oh I know I’ll chuck some shears in as well!! its enough to carry that lot anyway, and its only grass and a few brambles if that which can be cut down/bent back by hand anyway.He made the decision to take them and use them!
      He’s a class act and didn’t need to do it

    • #168483

      Pre match cheating

    • #168552

      @chrismoorhead wrote:

      well there you go it is in this months match fishing magazine
      as bold as brass
      page 76
      nick speed trimming the reeds
      so if the superstars can do it then why is it cheating
      i judge nick very highly in fact i rate him as one of the best anglers in this country

      If there are no rules in place at a fishery and a superstar does some gardening then fair enough
      If rules are in place at a fishery or all anglers are informed then a superstar should not do any gardening
      If he then purposely does some gardening he knows he is breaking the rules so he is cheating

    • #168517

      Anonymous

      Bagging 10, if you are worried about foul hooking fish (a ridiculous argument) fish in deeper water. The ONLY purpose to digging a flat spot is to provide an area where you can concentrate your bait and therefor the fish. Won’t concentrating the fish in a small area just lead to more foul hookers????

    • #168521

      Sorry Nn but having a flat spot at the correct depth makes a huge difference to foul hookers.
      Gardening is fine if you are chopping bank side vegitation back etc but once you start to meddle with sub surface things like roots weeds and the bottom its a complete no no as far as I am concerned. The guys with the shovels and waders know exactly what they are doing, its cheating, I dont care if the fishery owners allows it ot not.

    • #168522

      TF_Anthonywaters
      Participant

      @JohnH wrote:

      Sorry Nn but having a flat spot at the correct depth makes a huge difference to foul hookers.
      Gardening is fine if you are chopping bank side vegitation back etc but once you start to meddle with sub surface things like roots weeds and the bottom its a complete no no as far as I am concerned. The guys with the shovels and waders know exactly what they are doing, its cheating, I dont care if the fishery owners allows it ot not.

      Well said John

    • #168508

      Anonymous

      I must remember my boat next time i go matchfishing, i can row across to the island,dig a load of soil from it and make a large plateau,topped off with nice pea gravel,that should give me a nice feeder chuck,no one can stop me, it seems that its all fine now,yeeeehaaaaa see you in next years fisho and maver finals…it aint cheating its tidying my peg up… 🙂

    • #168690

      looks like this could hit the big time as its plastered all over facebook and some of the comments are worrying to say the least 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
      not good hanging out dirty washing on a social media site like facebook 🙁 🙁

    • #168691

      It’s a shame that the Angling Times have ran the story without investigating the facts 🙁

    • #168692

      It seems from reading this that there are numerous different versions of what the ‘facts’ actually were.

    • #168693

      So who decides which ‘version’ to print?

    • #168698

      Deadlines.

    • #168702

      TF_boss bait
      Participant

      any links to the story

    • #168709

      So lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story, print and be dammed!!
      I know now why I dont buy papers anymore or indeed watch news programmes.
      I think journalists in general do not serve us well, just look at the rubbish we have seen on Syria, its clear no one wants to go to war but there is no story in that so we have to drum up one, every day for weeks it seems!!!
      Just read what Gorbachev has said, he is on the money but is not contoversial enough or” on message”.
      I would expect journalists to try to be honest and accurate with what they write deadline or not,it seems its a case of fill up the column inches with the first thing that comes into their head and then go to the pub.
      Hardly a profession more a vocation.
      Just my own opinion of course.

    • #168771

      TF_Bagging10
      Participant
      Norman’s nemesis wrote:
      Bagging 10, if you are worried about foul hooking fish (a ridiculous argument) fish in deeper water. The ONLY purpose to digging a flat spot is to provide an area where you can concentrate your bait and therefor the fish. Won’t concentrating the fish in a small area just lead to more foul hookers????

      Haha the word “clueless” comes to mind lol if foul hooking fish then fish in deeper water haha that comment should get you banned from posting on this forum again 🙂

    • #168775

      Anonymous

      It should be fish in shallower water to reduce line bites and foul hooked fish OR fish as close to the margin bank as possible. Thats the reason for the need for gardening!

    • #168776

      Because banks are undercut due to wave action and the grass growing out into the lake. To get back to the solid bank you maybe have to dig back a foot or even more. Then you dont foulhook but just have to worry that the fish may not venture into such shallow water. A mud cloud helps to induce them in as it fools them into thinking food is present and other fish are on it, simples..

    • #168777

      TF_Bagging10
      Participant

      Obviously there the reasons but some1 tell me why the person who started the original post about this believes preventing foul hooking fish you should fish in deeper water haha some right legends in there own minds on this place who haven’t got a clue ha

    • #168778

      hmmm …. sounds very dodgy initially

      but then using a weed rake on a river is bound to alter any features as well

    • #168783

      Anonymous

      Jesus it’s simple bloody common sense. Fish in 10 feet of water and you’ll get loads of liners from fish swimming off the deck but not many foul hookers unless you strike like Zorro and pull your hook up through the full ten feet to make sure you hook the fish that bumped your line. Fish in 18 inches of water and you only have to lift 18 inches for the same result!!!!!

      Just heard by the way that Preston Innovations are in talks with JCB about a new ‘must have’ accessory for new year! 😀

    • #168789

      Norman, do you fish much?
      In 10 foot of water if you are on the deck and a carp at 5 foot deep swims across your line you will lift into it. Have you seen the size of fins on these fish??
      Same when fishing shallow, you will foulhook all day if you are fishing deeper than the fish are at.
      One other advantage of fishing on a flat patform is all the fish are feeding at the same depth, imagine you are on a slope some would be above your bait and some below hence problems foulhooking.
      I fished once for charity with Alan Scothorne and he told me to spend 30 mins if necessary plumbing up to find flat spots to fish, why do you think he thought it so important??
      If you have seen any of the free Preston DVD’s Des Shipp made exactly the same observation in a section winning result from an unfancied Bolingey peg.
      The only reason more anglers dont foulhook lots more fish when fishing the wrong depth is they dont feed enough, so never get the fish in their peg to start with.

    • #168791

      Also bear in mind stikes of Zorro proportions assume the fish is static. When they brush against line they often spook and bolt. If your line is around a fin the hook will be set before you can even think about striking. If you are at the correct depth your line will never get around a fin you only have to worry about getting your bait to the fishes mouth level not and inch higher or lower..

    • #168812

      Going back to the original thread
      Pre-match ‘gardening’
      On occations unforseen circumstances arrise eg a branch falling into a swim just prior to a match.
      Is it not just common sence to ask the match organizer prior to the all in that you can clear obstructions, and only breaking the waters surface with polite agreement with an organizer and or those fishing in the same vacinity before the all in?
      I have fished many matches where swims may not have been fished for months and they do get overgrown there has to be some flexibility.
      If it were me I would ask first, if I am told no I may not like it and moan all day but if the organizer says no it’s final and you live with it.
      All the pegs are in the hat at the draw that just comes down to Luck Of The Draw
      PS I get my fair share of good draws and the bad ones too
      Clunk

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